The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Gun Dog Broker
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: A world of Genetics vs. Real World Experience

  1. #1
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,723

    Default A world of Genetics vs. Real World Experience

    We all know the stats from the genetics school book on how color is inherited Yellow x Black (yellow carrier) = 50% Black-%50 Yellow, Brown x Black (brown carrier)= 50%-50%. Black(yellow carrier)x Black (yellow carrier) = 75% black, 25% yellow. Simple right? Same with the Chocolates. We'll as I've been watching a few litters this year, toying with the idea of trying a new color, but not yet insane enough to eliminate a black parent completely . I've found they are nowhere close to schoolbook. So I thought it might be fun to get some real world stats based on color breeding from personal experience, see if we can get them to balance out to 50%.

    So here goes this year so far

    Yellow x black ( Y carrier) = 8 black 3 yellow
    Chocolate x black (coco carrier) = 5 black 1 chocolate
    Black(Y carrier) x black (y-carrier) = 7 black

    So far all signs pointing to me staying with black
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 11-27-2012 at 01:09 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    281

    Default

    That is a tiny sample size
    The larger your sample size the closer you will hit the mathematical norms

  3. #3
    Senior Member PalouseDogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pullman, WA
    Posts
    259

    Default

    Plenty of parents out there with 9 girls because they weren't gonna give up until they got a boy (or vice-versa).

    There's a reason geneticists work with fruit flies....
    Kelly Cassidy (person)

    SR Maple Cassidy CDX JH RE (golden retriever)
    Alder Cassidy CDX RE (standard poodle chipmunk chaser)
    plus the "old ladies" (2 elderly mix-breed rescue girls)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Montview's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    768

    Default

    It is also not a typical Punnett square type situation. The percentages are the likelihood of each puppy in a litter being a particular color.... not a percentage of each litter. It sounds the same but it is definitely not.

    Oh, and I think you should go play some money on black in a good game of roulette!
    -Julie, Monty (2005 YLM), Rogue (2009 BLM), and Eddy (2013 BLM)

    "To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Anon

    LIFE IS GOOD. "Do what you like, like what you do."

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bally's Gun Dogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Brownsdale, MN
    Posts
    241

    Default

    I agree to go bet on black...

    Two litters we have had of mixed colors
    Black (chocolate carrier) X Chocolate 4 chocolate 4 black...better part of that was 6 females and 2 males (also theoretically a 50/50 chance each pup is male or female)
    Black (yellow carrier) X Yellow 1 yellow 6 males
    Black (chocolate carrier) X Chocolate Due Christmas Day we will see what we get

    Two litters same mating we have bought pups out of
    Black (yellow carrier) X Black (yellow carrier)
    Mating 1
    4 yellow and 2 black
    Mating 2
    6 black
    ~Cortney Bally~

    Home of:
    HRCH Fairwinds Bayou Boogie Woogie WCX MH *** (10/05)
    HRCH Elm Creek's' Koa WCX MH (07/07)
    HRCH Nebo's Uptown Girl MH *** (04/08)
    HR Bally's What Else But Hunt WCX SH *** (11/09)
    HR Bally's What Happens In Vegas WC SH (02/10)
    HR Bally's Swinging For The Fence JH *** (08/10)
    HRCH Bally's Best Blonde Joke JH (03/12)

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Litter 1 – Black (chocolate factored) X Black (chocolate factored) = 13 pups, 9 black, 4 chocolate
    Repeat litter 2 - 6 pups, 5 black, 1 chocolate
    Repeat litter 3 - 13 pups, 5 black, 8 chocolate

    My conclusion….
    Color = Unpredictable
    Accepting deposits expecting a large litter = small litter
    Turning down deposits expecting small litter = large litter
    Receiving more male deposits = more females
    Receiving more female deposits = more males
    Interest for black = chocolate
    Interset for chocolate = black
    Last edited by Brandon Bromley; 11-28-2012 at 10:31 AM.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    87

    Default

    Litter 1) Chocolate stud x Black bitch (chocolate factored), 9 chocolate, 1 black

    Liter 2) Black stud (chocolate factored) x Chocolate bitch (from Litter 1) 1 chocolate, 9 black
    “Don't raise your voice, improve your argument" Desmond Tutu

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    san Antonio
    Posts
    117

    Default

    How about this: Same male dog
    litter 1: Black Male (Yellow factored) x black female (yellow Factored) = 9 pups all black
    litter 2: Black Male (Yellow factored) x black female (yellow Factored) = 9 pups all black
    litter 3: Black Male (Yellow factored) x chocolate female (yellow Factored) = 6 pups all black
    litter 4: Black Male (Yellow factored) x yellow female (yellow Factored) = 10 pups all black
    litter 5: Black Male (Yellow factored) x chocolate female (yellow Factored) = 8 pups all black
    litter 6: Black Male (Yellow factored) x black female (yellow Factored) = 11 pups all black, all litters were born in a 6 year span with 6 different females !

  9. #9
    Senior Member Bally's Gun Dogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Brownsdale, MN
    Posts
    241

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sportnclays View Post
    How about this: Same male dog
    litter 1: Black Male (Yellow factored) x black female (yellow Factored) = 9 pups all black
    litter 2: Black Male (Yellow factored) x black female (yellow Factored) = 9 pups all black
    litter 3: Black Male (Yellow factored) x chocolate female (yellow Factored) = 6 pups all black
    litter 4: Black Male (Yellow factored) x yellow female (yellow Factored) = 10 pups all black
    litter 5: Black Male (Yellow factored) x chocolate female (yellow Factored) = 8 pups all black
    litter 6: Black Male (Yellow factored) x black female (yellow Factored) = 11 pups all black, all litters were born in a 6 year span with 6 different females !
    Was the male tested for the yellow gene?
    ~Cortney Bally~

    Home of:
    HRCH Fairwinds Bayou Boogie Woogie WCX MH *** (10/05)
    HRCH Elm Creek's' Koa WCX MH (07/07)
    HRCH Nebo's Uptown Girl MH *** (04/08)
    HR Bally's What Else But Hunt WCX SH *** (11/09)
    HR Bally's What Happens In Vegas WC SH (02/10)
    HR Bally's Swinging For The Fence JH *** (08/10)
    HRCH Bally's Best Blonde Joke JH (03/12)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,723

    Default

    Hmmm I'm envisioning a new retriever game, guessing litter color, so far it's appearing Black is the best bet, then a Yellow, then chocolate. If we give odds on this that 9 chocolate:1 black would be quite a pay-out

    I also have experience with a black male tested yellow carrier, shoot he was out of the yellow female, only ever produced one still born yellow in multiple breedings to different yellow females. I guess the black ones just swam faster

    Anyone dare to put odds on a tri-factor breeding?
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 11-28-2012 at 01:49 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •