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What's the Point?

6K views 28 replies 20 participants last post by  dr_dog_guy 
#1 ·
Noticing that a good many pups both amateur and pro handled that are entered in Qualifying Stakes that have previous 1st or 2nd placements that supposedly make them QAA. Are they running for experience before moving on to the major stakes or some other motivation that isn't apparent? What do you see as the motivation?:confused:
 
#2 ·
Maybe they aren't really ready to run the AA stakes, need more experience or the trial they placed in didn't have stiff competition or, the dog performed higher than its' own known abilities that single day?
 
#3 ·
I believe that if the dog had placed first 2 times and they are already registered up to run subsequent trials prior to their second first, they are eligible to compete in those trials. This may account for some of what you are speaking of......just a thought!

Chris
 
#4 ·
There are many motivations. The dog may not be ready to move up, the handler may need more experience,The dog may have 2 firsts in a row, and the owner wants to be able to say "my dog got 1st in 3 consecutive Quals", its easier to get a ribbon in a Q than all age stakes ;) ;), or the all important "because the rules allow it, and they can"
 
#5 ·
IMO. Why waste time running more Q"s. If the dog proved it's self in the Q move on. If that dog can win a Q it can also have a good day and place/win an Am.

QAA is not a title. If you're having a good weekend and running well, it would seem a waste to me to place in a Q when you "may" have placed in an Am.
 
#10 ·
Some dogs actually benefit from the experience of running the Qualifying. A certain type of dog gains confidence from running four series on the weekend rather than only one which can be the case for a year or more when a 2 year old moves up to all-age stakes.
 
#6 ·
The rules allow it and if you can't beat a dog who's already QAA and still eligible to run in a Qualifying stake then what ya gonna do against those AFC/FCs in an AA stake?

FTs are competitions....not everyone gets a "participation ribbon" and they do "keep score"
 
#7 ·
That is exactly my point...If you can win a Q, you also have a good chance of placing in an Am.

For the cost of admission, if your dog has a great weekend and beats every other dog there hands down.... Wouldn't you wish you had entered the Am.???

Every dog has it's day......go big or go home?? yes/no?
 
#8 ·
The work that may win a Qual may not play in an Amatuer....
 
#9 · (Edited)
I know this....But a QAA dog is just a good day away from a Am. placement.

Why waste the time and money running a Q. ???

To each their own but, I'll run the Am. anytime before the Q...... When I can.


To the OP... I have no idea why they would continue to run the Q.

Randy
 
#12 ·
I'd be curious how many of those dogs are double entered in the Qual and AM. I personally know of a handful that were double staked in either the AM or Open after a 2nd or one 1st in the qual.
 
#14 ·
I doubled staked Bullet, but that was because I needed the experience as much as he did...will probably do the same with next pup if my Pro doesn't object (this of course assumes he makes it out of basics ;))
 
#16 ·
Many dogs are trained and handled to a qualifying 1st or 2nd by a pro. Then the owner is encouraged to get some line time with said dog. There is a much higher likelyhood they will get 3 or 4 series of experience in a Q vs. Maybe 1 or 2 series in the Am.

Rather than trying to disect the reasons the competition is there in the Qual, I just try to focus on doing the best job I can with my dogs and hope it's better than their best on that day, regardless of what placements they've had in the past.
 
#18 ·
Don't dogpile for my comment. It discourages the HT folks from giving FT a try. If you want to attract new blood change this area.
Every time I think about entering a Qual I look and see the Pros entered and think why brother and don't want to embarrass myself. This not a criticism,but that is the prevailing attitude amougst my HT friends.
 
#20 ·
If you have a good dog, it does not matter who the rest of the field is. I used to have the exact same feeling that you did, and did not enter a few of our local trials because I just figured, why, when there is a pretty good group of Pro trained dogs and I have no chance.

However, that does not mean those Pro trained dogs that are entered in the Q are any better than yours. Yes, there certainly will be some of them that are (those great derby dogs who go and win a Q in one or two Q entries), but not all of them.

In the last Q I ran, I was handling two dogs. We had 27 entries, and a good portion of those dogs were on pro trucks. I got both dogs to the third series, and got one to the final series. Of the 8 dogs that were in the final series, 4 were AM trained, and an AM won it.

So with that being said. Forget about the competition, and go run your dog. A well trained dog is a well trained dog. Do not worry about what other people think. Go have fun. Go enjoy yourself. And Go watch your dog do something that can be great / good / or downright horrible. The point is. It is only a game, and although placements are out there, it really does not matter in the end as long as you are spending a fun day with your best bud (the dog).

Doug
 
#19 · (Edited)
I have a little different slant.....I'm of the opinion that running a dog in a trial at any level does nothing good for a dog. To follow with that belief, I only enter events because I want the experience along side the dog, experience under particular judges, run on particular grounds (as well as compete, qualify for a nat'l etc) - and for the most part would not consider any of those things relative to minor stakes. To continue, since I think running a dog in a trial is not good for the dog, I enter as few minor stakes as I can while gaining experience with that dog (is he better, more hyper, less focused, more given to bad habits, etc than in training). So if I happen to get a dog qualifed by placing 1st or 2nd in a minor stake, I will not run that dog again until he is ready to run AA stakes....JMO. And like the OP, I do scratch my head at Q entries where the dogs are qualifed and the handlers experienced.
 
#21 ·
Double staked my dog in the qual and open at 29 mo old. Went out in the 1st of the qual jammed the open. I do not run a lot of trials. My dog and myself would have been much better off running quals the next season but were forced out with the open jam. Now I guess I should have just trained my butt of the following year and not run any opens but thought if we did it once we can do it again. Came close a couple times but I think we would have been much better off in the qual.
 
#23 ·
I am one of those with a young (3 year old) QAA dog (with a 2nd place finish) that still runs the Qual and probably will until I win two Quals. The reason? I am new to the trial game and this is the first dog I have ever trialed with. I do my own training and occasionally train with a pro 1 day a week. I am running the Qual to get more experience in trials for myself and probably less for the dog. As Dr Ed said, I think there is an advantage to running 4 series in an event instead of the one and done experience we would get in an AA stake. I learn on every trial, get to see a lot of different judges and set ups and I am getting more relaxed with the trial scene running the qual. Last year my dog placed (2nd,3rd & 4th) in 3 quals and jammed 3 more quals out of 8 attempts. I have seen advice before to newbies like myself to just stay at the qual level until you win out....it is the best for you and your dog. I do have to admit, I have dreams about running AA, but am not sure when to move up and try it. I think I have time to gain more experience in the qual and it seems to me the dogs that do well in AA are older dogs in the 5+ year range...so I will probably still run my dog as a 3 year old in the qual this coming summer and probably try AA when she is 4. Make any sense? As I said I am still learning.
 
#26 ·

First, there are older dogs who simply lack either the talent or training to be successful in the All Age Stakes. Their owners simply enjoy participation in Field Trials, and like being able to run 4 series on a weekend

Second, there are the young up and comers (sometimes still in the derby), whose owners want to give their dogs an opportunity to run 4 series and have success before they beat their head against the wall in the All Age Stakes

Third, there are dogs that simply need the confidence that going 4 series brings them

Contrary to what others have said, I do not believe that Field Trials only introduce bad habits to dogs.

Rather, I find that there are some dogs, who need the excitement of competition to help them understand why we train. There are dogs whose training attitude and aptitude increase significantly after they find success - in any stake.

Why force a dog to stop running the Q after it has become QAA?
Why force a dog to stop running after it has qualified for the National Open? The National Am? Why can't people get to enjoy their dogs - at whatever level?
 
#28 ·
x2

I have one that needs the trial environment. Not all dogs need or react the same. Its great that we can choose to keep running Q's or move on up.
 
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