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View Poll Results: Why not use a collar

Voters
27. You may not vote on this poll
  • I would love to, just not in the budget.

    2 7.41%
  • I think it is a cruel devise and would never put one on fluffy

    1 3.70%
  • I have anger issues and would worry about overuse

    2 7.41%
  • I want to prove a good dog can be trained without one

    2 7.41%
  • I worry about ruining the dog because I'm not confident I could use it correctly

    3 11.11%
  • I learned to train without one and its worked for me

    4 14.81%
  • Other

    13 48.15%
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Thread: Why "Not" use an e-collar?

  1. #1
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    Default Why "Not" use an e-collar?

    Disclaimer: This is not a post to start the debate! I don't want to get into my ways right, your is wrong. We're past that I hope. I'm just looking for more understanding.

    Someone posted that he uses force and stick force methods but doesn't use a collar so its not a matter of forced pressure or even a pain avoidance type response that that person worries about with the collar. I've heard a few reasons over the last several months and still for the life of me don't really understand why not. So I'm gonna list a few reasons I've heard and would love for you to pick one and expand on it. Please don't take this personally, I'm just trying to understand. In fairness I will give you my take on the subject whether right or wrong.

    My opinion: The collars effectiveness has been proven time and time again. Used correctly it is a fair tool that give quick correction that the dog understands. IMHO, better than taking time to run out and correct the dog, the dog understands better what you want. The only dogs I've seen that I felt were ruined from the collar was not from so much an overuse issue as much as a bad conditioning program, or trying to "teach" with the collar.(I know, I know. Some things debatably CAN be taught) The best, most enthusiastic dogs I've ever seen were trained with the collar. These are the reasons I choose a collar style training program over a non. Again, just my take.

    I've also heard people say that training without one makes you a better trainer...how?
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

  2. #2
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    Default

    Seriously,
    People have said this is their reason for not using an ecollar?

    "I have anger issues and would worry about overuse"



    Scary

    --Lisa

  3. #3
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Schirmeister
    Seriously,
    People have said this is their reason for not using an ecollar?

    "I have anger issues and would worry about overuse"



    Scary

    --Lisa

    [/u]
    I am completely serious, I was given that reason by a guy several years ago. He had 3 MH dogs, very nice but always said that if he could "zap em" while he was mad it would cause problems.
    Non of these poll answers were meant to be a joke, I have heard them all at one time or another.
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

  4. #4
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    Default

    Okay then, I vote other just so that I can see the poll results.

    --Lisa

  5. #5
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    Default

    Well, my reasons for NOT using one are varied. In all honesty, last summer I considered getting one for my youngest BLF...she was young (~6-8mos), and doing "puppy" things according to Keith. Being a new trainer, I didn't have the knowledge/experience to fall back on as to how to deal with her (she would swim out for a water retrieve, pick up the duck or bumper, and swim back towards me. She would get 4-5 feet away, give me that "look"---I'm sure you've all seen it at one time or another---and swim away. She never destroyed the birds. It was all a game). She had 3 of her 4 SHR passes by 7 mos old, and was pulling this crap at HT's on the water marks. I decided it was better NOT to continue running her, as it was in essence reinforcing all these bad habits---she knew I couldn't discipline her at the HT's.

    Thankfully calmer, more experienced minds prevailed (Thanks, Keith!). I realized that the reason why I wanted one was to zap her!! NOT the reason to get one...

    My other dog, a YLM, is the opposite extreme. He's so soft, and wants to please soooo badly that a collar would ruin him for sure. Last summer and fall he began to "pop". Keith and I tried everything we could think of to get it through to him. Finally, we tried a buggy-whip....Keith threw the mark, and right as I sent him, I whacked him on the butt to hopefully build momentum to not hesitate or pop. The look on his face as I whacked him was total disbelief...why was I doing this to him when all he wanted to do was please me?? He shut down, and just sat there. I whacked him again. Still he sat. I about cried. I would NEVER put a collar on him.

    Do I think e-collars are humane if used correctly in the right hands? Probably. Do I think dogs have to have them to be competitive in FT's? Probably. But I have no desire to compete in FT's with my dogs. Corrections on 300-400yd marks or blinds aren't going to be in our training future. I think that you can teach a dog whatever it is you want to teach them w/o resorting to extremely violent measures or even using e-collars, if you have developed the right bond with them. All it takes is time. More time than would be required to teach the same concept if you used an e-collar? Probably. But that's ok. I've got time. Now all I need is experience!!

    --Nicki

  6. #6
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    Default

    it's the way i've learned to do it. it works for me, so far!-paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  7. #7
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    Default

    At least Keith can run out and NOT fall down.....

  8. #8
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    Default

    I voted "other". I don't use a collar for the same reason I don't use a clicker. I just don't like "things"/devices. I don't ever want to feel like-"Ooops- I forgot my collar, clicker, heeling stick, whatever-therefore my training will suffer today." It just doesn't feel natural to me. Also-the joy of this for me is that is honestly is a game for me & the dog. I don't have anything riding on this & I won't with the next pup either. If I can't do it without a collar than it won't mean I could have done it with one.
    M
    "You can put pressure on a dog, you canít take it backÖ"

    Mitch Patterson '07

    MHR Wadin's Katie Lied CD, SH, WCX (11/25/93-1/27/07 Rest Well Kate)
    Brassfire's Brass in Pocket JH, WCX ** (4 Master passes)
    Brassfire's New England Patriot (New Pup!!!)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Anthony Heath's Avatar
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    Default

    I just don't like "things"/devices.
    Miriam,

    You don't use ropes or leads either?

    I think we have a Whisperer amongst us.

    Anthony
    He's got a little Mississippi Leg-Hound in him. Once he starts though, it's best to just let him finish.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Another twist to this poll....

    How many of you that use e-collars have actually felt what the shock feels like??

    ...I know Keith has....

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