Disclaimer: This is not a post to start the debate! I don't want to get into my ways right, your is wrong. We're past that I hope. I'm just looking for more understanding.
Someone posted that he uses force and stick force methods but doesn't use a collar so its not a matter of forced pressure or even a pain avoidance type response that that person worries about with the collar. I've heard a few reasons over the last several months and still for the life of me don't really understand why not. So I'm gonna list a few reasons I've heard and would love for you to pick one and expand on it. Please don't take this personally, I'm just trying to understand. In fairness I will give you my take on the subject whether right or wrong.
My opinion: The collars effectiveness has been proven time and time again. Used correctly it is a fair tool that give quick correction that the dog understands. IMHO, better than taking time to run out and correct the dog, the dog understands better what you want. The only dogs I've seen that I felt were ruined from the collar was not from so much an overuse issue as much as a bad conditioning program, or trying to "teach" with the collar.(I know, I know. Some things debatably CAN be taught) The best, most enthusiastic dogs I've ever seen were trained with the collar. These are the reasons I choose a collar style training program over a non. Again, just my take.
I've also heard people say that training without one makes you a better trainer...how?