What's the Point, Part 2

[BBnumber1]

It's not so much about "competing" as it is starting at a level that will bring and keep new people in the sport.

If a person is afraid of the level of competition that exists in the minors, they will probably not thrive in the upper levels and will soon be gone.

[EdA]

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

So spoke the Great Dandy Don Meredith on Monday Night Football, Mount Vernon Texas's own son and SMU's finest

[BBnumber1]

I agree that we should encourage new people to handle their dogs. When I see new folks, I do encourage them. I just don't see many new people at Trials.

[FOM]

I agree that we should encourage new people to handle their dogs. When I see new folks, I do encourage them. I just don't see many new people at Trials.

And on that note, when I was looking for a Pro I was told by several that I would not be handling my dog other than in the Am, needless to say I never sent my dog to these Pros. I think a persons pro should be encouraging them to handle, but it's a double edge sword...so we are back to if's and but's.

[Ted Shih]

I think that some pros do encourage their clients to run their dogs.

My pro Cherylon Loveland does not compete, so if I want my dogs to be run, it is up to me.

When my dogs were with Dave Rorem for the winters, Dave was very supportive of my efforts to run my dogs in the Open, as well as the Am.

I have seen a number of Kenny Trott's clients run their dogs in the minors and the Amateur, which would lead me to believe that Kenny is encouraging their participation.

I judged the Open at Swamp Dog this fall, and I know that Randy Bohn was helping his clients run their dogs in the Open

I am sure that there are other pros, who encourage their clients to run their dogs, too.

[Ted Shih]

The logic here seems off, unless your point is that the judging pool for the higher levels will never deepen and the current judging pool will remain static until they die or retire.

If only amateurs can be judges, the way to deepen the pool is for new amateurs get into the sport. And hopefully for that amateur to have experience training their own dog and to run their own dog in the minor and major stakes. How else can you have the necessary experience to be a knowledgeable judge who keeps the sport solid, for lack of a better word.

If all the amateur did was watch the pro train his or her dog, then watch the pro run the dog up through AA with only an occasional time at bat, how is that amateur going to be a good judge?

First, my general observations are as follows (they are my observations, if you want do disagree, feel free to do so, but I am not going to get into a debate about whether they are accurate or not):

- As a practical matter, although the number of entries seems to be relatively constant, the number of owners who handle their dogs seems to be decreasing.

- The number of owners who train their dog and handle them in competition seems to be decreasing as well.

- The numbers of amateurs who compete with their dogs are insufficient to service the numbers of trials and stakes across the country.

Second, if pros were allowed to judge, it would increase the judging pool. However,

- I don't think that there is sufficient political support to authorize pros to judge
- Even if pros could judge, I doubt that there are sufficient numbers of pros to satisfy the short fall

Third, although as a general matter, I believe that it is helpful to a judge to have experience training a dog and competing with a dog, I have run under my share of judges who did both and were mediocre judges at best.

The key in becoming a better trainer, handler, or judge - first and foremost is desire and willingness to learn. Some have it, some do not. I have found over the years in this sport - as in life - that it is very difficult to make an adult a good student. By the time a person reaches adulthood, they are either a good student or are not.

Accordingly, in field trials - as in life - I will invest time in someone who I view to be a good student; I will ignore someone who I view to a poor student. Time is the big commodity in my life, and I am very careful where I invest it.

[Socks]

I want to be sure that there is no confusion about my previous posts.

First, I don't think that any of us need to force competitive venues on anyone else. There is nothing wrong with not enjoying competition, any more than there is something wrong with enjoying competition. As long as you are having fun with your dog(s), who cares?

Second, when it comes to Mike (MooserGooser), I am not telling him that he should compete, or that he is wrong in not wanting to compete. I am simply saying I am tired of hearing him whine - both on RTF and in person - about his alleged short-comings. I don't think that those short comings are present. But, if they were, I would tell him - and anyone else - either fix it or stop complaining about it. I despise whining.

Third, I am not much into the "this person is better than that person" stuff we get so frequently on RTF

Suppose
Person A trains and handles his dog
Person B has a pro train his dog, but handles it in competition
Person C has a pro train and handle his dog

Why is any person better than the other?

For my own selfish reasons, I would like to have more owners run their dogs, because I believe - perhaps wrongly - that the more people did so, the more people we would have working at, judging, and putting on trials - which I think is good.

Ted

You know Gooser and I don't and you have the knowledge and the titles. Sometimes I get kind of concerned when it seems that the HRCH and MH is treated as just something that you can get while going for the FC and AFC. Maybe I'm just being oversensitive and I'm not saying you've done this. Like I said, I think the HRCH and the MH and big accomplishment.

[Hunt'EmUp]

You know Gooser and I don't and you have the knowledge and the titles. Sometimes I get kind of concerned when it seems that the HRCH and MH is treated as just something that you can get while going for the FC and AFC.

FT & HT are they're own cultures and do not cross much. How many FC-AFC these days do you see with an MH attached to the back? (Very Few) I don't know that I've ever seen one with an HRCH or a GRHRCH attached. It's becoming rare to see even QAA or derby dogs with HT titles. Seems like people choose one or the other, perhaps if you had more cross you might see more of this new blood everyone is supposedly looking for. But realistically everything from trials-tests-clubs right down to training groups-training style are segregated, often times with very ingrained opinions about the other venue (both sides). There is no real transition point btw the two, Picnic trails have all but disappeared, Every once in a great while you might see an Owner/handler Qual attached to a HT, those are increasing in rarity. Where's the pull-hook for the HT amateur to even try the FT venue, without jumping straight in to a venue ran mainly by pro trained dogs which is all but setup with an air of exclusivity and unattainably?