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Thread: What's the Point, Part 2

  1. #101
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
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    I'll use my imagination for the analogy.

    I hear you on the HT thing, but you might have inadvertently painted with a little bit too broad a brush. I have a friend with a 3YO (I think) who this year has passed the Grand and the Master National. My friend started his own business right before he got the dog (do the math) and is in a situation that if he's not working he's not eating and making mortgage payments. If it were up to him to train or handle himself, he couldn't do it. He had a hard time making it to see his dog run in the Master National when it was less than an hour from his house.

    The choice here was either let a pro train and handle or let the dog lay on the couch and waste all that potential. And I can't believe that it is all that uncommon. I don't even
    have kids, and it is still very difficult to find time, especially at this time of year, to train, much less to figure out how to get better as a trainer with a wife and a job.

    Sometimes people do things out of necessity to help a dog reach their potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Littlejohn View Post
    I'll also never understand what possible satisfaction folks get out of someone else titling their dog in HTs, but that's their business too.
    I have an analogy that's not appropriate here.

  2. #102
    Senior Member MikeBoley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade View Post
    Mark & Mike,

    The thread is not that I have issues with Pro's running the Q or competing against Pro's. I am trying to state that I would like to see new people run there own dogs, especially in the minors, rather than have a pro run the dog. Is there a better place than the minor stakes to run as a newbie than the minors? People talk about getting new blood in the FT game all the time, GREAT. But run your dogs when you have the chance. Don't be a spectator, be a participant, is what I'm trying to say.
    Wade I reread your OP, you are correct that the minors are a good place to get your feet wet. What better way than to do that than to think a new handler put one over on an old pro. I just dont want to see the dilution of competion for the sake of participation.
    'I make my practices real hard because if a player is a quitter, I want him to quit in practice, not in a game.' - Bear Bryant / Alabama

  3. #103
    Senior Member Wade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBoley View Post
    I just dont want to see the dilution of competion for the sake of participation.
    I agree Mike, however remember this game was, is and always should be ABOUT the Amateur.

    There is nothing wrong with using a pro, none what so ever. But when game time comes, if at all possible, as a new person to the sport with a dog entered in a minor stake run your dog in that minor stake. Learn to handle the dog. learn to handle your emotions at those lower levels so that when one gets to the big leagues (AA stakes) you have controlled some of those things.

    I believe to understand how things work internally as a judge, as a gunner, as a thrower, as a marshal you have to experience being on the mat yourself during a trial.
    I hate rude behavior in a man, won't tolerate it. Captain Woodrow Call

  4. #104
    Senior Member Wade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RookieTrainer View Post
    And just when you thought it was contradictory enough, I had a choice to go to the SEC Championship game or go work with my trainer and my dog today, and I picked my dog. Mostly because the behavior he is describing sounds so foreign to me (that is, good) that I want to make sure he still actually has my dog.

    Who wants to stand in line for an $8 Miller Lite that is warm anyway???
    I believe you made the wrong choice!!!! LOL

    Should be a good game. I am not a big of Mark Richt, I like Bama to win
    I hate rude behavior in a man, won't tolerate it. Captain Woodrow Call

  5. #105
    Senior Member MikeBoley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade View Post
    I agree Mike, however remember this game was, is and always should be ABOUT the Amateur.

    There is nothing wrong with using a pro, none what so ever. But when game time comes, if at all possible, as a new person to the sport with a dog entered in a minor stake run your dog in that minor stake. Learn to handle the dog. learn to handle your emotions at those lower levels so that when one gets to the big leagues (AA stakes) you have controlled some of those things.

    I believe to understand how things work internally as a judge, as a gunner, as a thrower, as a marshal you have to experience being on the mat yourself during a trial.
    I think we are in agreement. I think you need to do all the things bolded to really understand how to do a good job judging a stake.
    'I make my practices real hard because if a player is a quitter, I want him to quit in practice, not in a game.' - Bear Bryant / Alabama

  6. #106
    Senior Member John Lash's Avatar
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    I would think that amateur vs. pro has been going on since Field Trials started. So much so that they started a stake stricty for amateurs.

    Field trials are a little like fly fishing. Mysterious, a little scary to start. Once you get into it and understand things you wonder what all the fuss was about. Of course, there isn't a gallery and two judges watching you fly fish either...
    John Lash

    "If you run Field Trials, you learn to swallow your disappointment quickly."

    "Field trials are not a game for good dogs. They're for great dogs with great training." E. Graham

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Lash View Post
    I would think that amateur vs. pro has been going on since Field Trials started. So much so that they started a stake stricty for amateurs.
    Unfortunately John, some folks found that they could be semi-pro's & still play at the amateur level. & there is no leadership to deal with that .
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  8. #108
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    I think the game is and should be about the dogs. To be sure of that the dogs should be handled by the best handler. Sorry, but In some cases this is not the owner of the dog. There is no way what so ever that leveling the playing field is in the best interest of the mission statement to find "the relative merits of retrievers ( Dogs) in the field" ......



    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 12-01-2012 at 08:11 PM.
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  9. #109
    Senior Member Wade's Avatar
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    So what are you saying John? Please elaborate a little more.
    I hate rude behavior in a man, won't tolerate it. Captain Woodrow Call

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade View Post
    So what are you saying John? Please elaborate a little more.
    https://www.entryexpress.net/loggedi....aspx?eid=5544
    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...ver-Club/page2

    Look at the entries and the results of the Snowbird trial, this is what the Q is all about. The Pros and A list Ams finish with the best dogs there that day.............That is how it was meant to be.

    If some other dog was better that day they would have placed; no matter who was handling.

    THAT is and should be what this game is all about!

    Its about the dogs regards,

    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 12-02-2012 at 01:15 AM.
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

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