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Thread: Protecting the Spotted Owl ...

  1. #11
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Don't know that much about farming public lands. I do know that they have to replant areas that are clear-cut. The problem with that is that they replant a mono-cultured hybrid and what was once a bio-diverse enrivonment becomes a mono-culture. Not long ago, timber companies ran TV ads claiming how they replant the forrest they cut. What they don't tell you is that they have destroyed a bio-diversed culture for a mono one.

    The trend I see whether it is trees or ocean/freshwater fish is in farming on private land. Farming better preserves more of our last natural environment and is more profitable. The problem with today's mono-culture hybrid Pine plantations is the same with Catfish farming, they have all been over built. Too much supply has made profit margins too slim for most to survive. Add the imported Canadian timber and it compounds the problem. And like I mentioned earlier, it cost far less to harvest timber on a farm than on public land. At least with trees, if managed properly, most of it can survive disease and parasites until the market improves for harvest.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    Lizabeth!! It's the big one!




    Bill Davis

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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    Lizabeth!! It's the big one!
    LOL. Been a long time since I heard that line. Very "fitting" though.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Don't know that much about farming public lands. I do know that they have to replant areas that are clear-cut. The problem with that is that they replant a mono-cultured hybrid and what was once a bio-diverse enrivonment becomes a mono-culture. Not long ago, timber companies ran TV ads claiming how they replant the forrest they cut. What they don't tell you is that they have destroyed a bio-diversed culture for a mono one.

    The trend I see whether it is trees or ocean/freshwater fish is in farming on private land. Farming better preserves more of our last natural environment and is more profitable. The problem with today's mono-culture hybrid Pine plantations is the same with Catfish farming, they have all been over built. Too much supply has made profit margins too slim for most to survive. Add the imported Canadian timber and it compounds the problem. And like I mentioned earlier, it cost far less to harvest timber on a farm than on public land. At least with trees, if managed properly, most of it can survive disease and parasites until the market improves for harvest.
    Boy, I don't know where you have been hiding but in the last two years, I have NEVER seen more logs being hauled or sitting in the lots for processing. Just spent 3 1/2 months outside of Longview WA and EVERY SINGLE DAY there were SEVERAL very large barges heading down the river to who knows where (I would guess Japan or Asia somewhere).

    The logging industry is booming again. Weyerhauser and every other timber company is buying or leasing lands, and cutting and replanting like mad. Lots of it is being bought and MOST of that land is replanted and put in a rotation for logging once the new growth is ready.

    Most of the "farmed" trees here in the Pac NW that I see are a cottonwood/willow tree that is harvested at about 20-25 years. That is used for paper.

    WRL

  5. #15
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=HPL;1038462]It really distresses me to hear hunters who seem to be so virulently anti-environment. I haven't read the spotted owl studies, nor have I read the EIS, but as a part owner of that PUBLIC land, to me, public land should not be used for the profit of private individuals or corporations, but for the enjoyment of the PUBLIC. I will also acknowledge that I don't know how logging works on public land, that is to say what requirements to restore habitat are imposed for instance. When the commenter said that very little was old growth, it wasn't disclosed how old the forest actually was. Has this land been logged before? Is it all regrowth? It is also a bit confusing that the environmentalists are preventing thinning and controlled burns. It was my impression that it is pretty well accepted that one of the big problems in our forests these days is the disastrous build up of fuel that is the result of old fire suppression practices.

    As to people losing jobs, that is simply a function of changing times. How many whalers do you currently know? How about wheelwrights? If lumber use hasn't decreased in the US, then those jobs haven't been lost due to these forest closures but rather to mechanization and foreign competition.[/QUOTE]

    Exactly! It is just not that profitable today in logging on public lands, period! The jobs lost is the northwest are the jobs created in the southeast where growing hybrid pine is the number one crop. In the gulf states, except for Texas, there is more land devoted to growing hybrid pine than cotton, soybean or corn. For more info on this I would suggest a visit to the US Dept of Agriculture . gov website. A much better read than trying to discuss the subject with folks that know nothing about the subject.
    Last edited by Franco; 11-29-2012 at 09:24 AM.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Don't know anything about Norm ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Don't know that much about farming public lands. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    .... A much better read than trying to discuss the subject with folks that know nothing about the subject.
    Red letter day
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    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Turns out, the Barred Owl is kicking the Spotted Owls AZZ!!!!!


    ..Obama the Job-Killing Owl-Killer

    By Michelle Malkin | Michelle Malkin – Wed, Nov 28, 2012

    Welcome to the pretzel logic of liberal environmental protection: In order to "save" owls, the Obama administration is going to shoot them dead.

    This is not — I repeat not — an Onion parody.

    Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the White House released a big fat policy turkey: its final critical habitat rule for the endangered northern spotted owl. The Obama plan will lock up 9.6 million acres of land (mostly, but not all, federal) in Oregon, Washington and northern California. This is nearly double the acreage set aside by the Bush administration. Thousands of timber workers (along with untold thousands of related support jobs) will be threatened in the name of sparing a few thousand spotted owls from extinction.

    As House Natural Resources Committee Chairman Doc Hastings, R-Wash., pointed out earlier this year, timber-dependent counties hit hard by the federal land grab and unending environmental litigation remain racked by high unemployment. "The loss in economic activity caused by the original spotted owl plan caused an astounding decrease in federal tax receipts of nearly $700 million per year — all from rural Northwest communities."

    Despite two decades of massive government intervention and the near-destruction of the northwest timber industry, the furry bird is vanishing faster than ever. According to the Smithsonian Magazine, "(t)imber harvest on 24 million acres of federal land had dropped 90 percent from its heyday" by the year 2000. Yet, northern spotted owls are now "disappearing three times faster than biologists had feared." Indeed, spotted owl populations in key parts of Washington State "are half what they were in the 1980s." And overall, the bird has seen a 40 percent decline over the past 25 years, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

    Punishing loggers and bringing the timber industry to its knees have made vengeful environmental groups fat and happy. But the northern spotted owl they claim to care so much about is catastrophically worse off thanks to green zealotry. One root cause: habitat loss (thanks in part to raging wildfires resulting from poor forest management and green opposition to thinning/controlled burns).

    The other major, nonhuman culprit: the barred owl.

    These barred owls began migrating from the East Coast in the 1950s, and the USFWS reports that the larger, more aggressive and more adaptable birds "are known to displace spotted owls, disrupt their nesting and compete with them for food." Barred owls are more prolific breeders, less finicky about their food and less picky about where they live. They also don't bow down before the Endangered Species Act or the hallowed "threatened" status of its weaker brethren. They are brutal predators known to slam into spotted owls, slicing them with their talons and decapitating them in their nests.

    Conservation groups whine that barred owls are victims of "scapegoating." But USFWS Director Dan Ashe spoke the truth earlier this year: "We can't ignore the mounting evidence that competition from barred owls is a major factor in the spotted owl's decline."

    Instead of admitting failure and letting nature take its course, however, command-and-control bureaucrats have appointed themselves Mother Nature's judges, juries and executioners. Their "main priority" is "reducing competition from barred owls." How? By gunning them down. Final details are still in the works, but the agency has floated past removal schemes that involve "luring territorial barred owls into close range ... using recorded calls and an owl decoy. ... A shotgun would be used to prevent wounding and ensure rapid and humane death." Experts say such an eradication plan would need to continue for centuries.

    Twenty years of regulatory salvation have failed the northern spotted owl. Who believes that another top-down government exercise in species engineering — this time backed with bullets — will do the trick? When the government picks winners and losers, taxpayers always get screwed. No matter the job losses. No matter the death toll. Arrogant and unaccountable central planners never give a hoot.

    Michelle Malkin is the author of "Culture of Corruption: Obama and his Team of Tax Cheats, Crooks and Cronies" (Regnery 2010). Her e-mail address is malkinblog@gmail.com.

    COPYRIGHT 2012 CREATORS.COM
    Funny lady, mother nature!!!!!
    Last edited by road kill; 11-29-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    Red letter day
    Too bad you can't read.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  9. #19
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    O.K. so the two owls that was one owl but was separated by the last ice age is coming back together and in some cases evolving into a new owl that could be said is just the original owl?
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  10. #20
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Too bad you can't read.
    Oh I can read, Franco. Too bad you can't take a joke.
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