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Thread: first time training, and getting discouraged in transition pattern blinds

  1. #41
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtmanring View Post
    Yes sir these are familiar, i thought they were started later in training after pb.?
    That's when I do it. Some run them sooner. But I prefer to get my PB work done first, and then start gradually refining initial lines. Are you following a program?

    Evan
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    That's when I do it. Some run them sooner. But I prefer to get my PB work done first, and then start gradually refining initial lines. Are you following a program?

    Evan
    I try to follow lardys flow chart with the knowlegeg i gained from waterdog, dokens, and bill tarrants books. I have asked for trt for Christmas, but so far her training has been along the lines of the flow chart but by my means of teaching throw the knowledge i have gained from reading these books and fellow trainers.
    so i use the chart as a guide but have just learned how to teach drills and field work from other sources.
    Train,Hunt,Enjoy

  3. #43
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    Are you training with any of the very knowledgable trainers in your area? What do they say about your concerns/progress?

    5 minutes with one of those guys is 1000x more valuable than 5 pages of Internet advice, with or without YouTube.
    Allen Dillard

    HRCH Play It Again, Sam MH *** "Sam"
    Scout's High Calibre "Colt"
    Slippin' Up the Holler "Dooley"
    Lucky Number Seven VII "Layla"

  4. #44
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    I started the wagon wheel early - after mini - T, I think. Just 4 bumpers, then 6. Maybe 1-2 X a week at the most, usually after pile work. He needed lots of work turning - push/pull cue experience.

    What I REALLY got out of it was learning to WAIT TO BE SENT! If he 'broke' during pile work, I didn't want to always call him back, so I would let him continue on once in a while. The wagon wheel taught he and I to work together. Now, doing pattern blinds, he a great sit, is very focused, and I can read his 'intent', whether it's MY intent or not! He just turned a year old.

    Debbie

  5. #45
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Codatango View Post
    I started the wagon wheel early - after mini - T, I think. Just 4 bumpers, then 6. Maybe 1-2 X a week at the most, usually after pile work. He needed lots of work turning - push/pull cue experience.

    Debbie
    That speaks to a difference in programs, as much as anything else. In my program you would have cleared the pattern blind work during the same time Mini-T is done. It just depends on your skill progression.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
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  6. #46
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    Evan,

    In my case it had more to do with available land without foxtails for summer work. (and where we were in training) The green belt I have to train on has grass (and weeds), and is somewhat mowed/watered by the city. Pattern blinds there can only be 60 yds or so and it's also where I can do pile work. There are 2 areas of 100 yds long by 60 yds wide. Not a lot of options. For wagon wheel, I just faced the opposite direction and did up to 9 bumpers, and not very tight. There is still more refined work to do with that, of course.

    I did start the concept of pattern blinds at this green belt, while I put in motion the re-joining of the club necessary to use the best training within a 30 min drive (where I can go any day). That's Ogier Rd in Morgan Hill if any of you know the area. It's a great area for puppy through with transition work.

    Debbie

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtmanring View Post
    I try to follow lardys flow chart with the knowlegeg i gained from waterdog, dokens, and bill tarrants books. I have asked for trt for Christmas, but so far her training has been along the lines of the flow chart but by my means of teaching throw the knowledge i have gained from reading these books and fellow trainers.
    so i use the chart as a guide but have just learned how to teach drills and field work from other sources.
    I think a lot would clear up for you if the methods you were using better matched the TRT flow chart. There is a design of components in that flow chart that dictates how skill acquisition progresses, and the books you're following don't really adhere to that methodology. Just a suggestion. Good luck.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
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    Why are you holding your pup? If you are running blinds the dog should be steady at this point.

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    I'm not answering for the OP. But I do think I can she a bit of light on why you may see this happen sometimes. I've only had two dogs that I can remember allowing a bit of creep on blinds, and I only allowed it for a brief period. Both were well bred dogs, but that did not show a great deal of prey drive in their first 8-10 months.

    We elected to go ahead in each case, and put them through Basics, where a full course of fforce work was done. When we finished FTP, and began pattern blinds, part of promoting drive included not picking on them for "steadiness" when they were cued up for blinds, via "dead bird" cue. We gradually imposed steadiness as they maintained eagerness, as well as composure, and ended up with nice solid stylish blind running dogs.

    Both because MH's. More importantly, both were stylish eager dogs on blinds.

    EvanG
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I'm not answering for the OP. But I do think I can she a bit of light on why you may see this happen sometimes. I've only had two dogs that I can remember allowing a bit of creep on blinds, and I only allowed it for a brief period. Both were well bred dogs, but that did not show a great deal of prey drive in their first 8-10 months.

    We elected to go ahead in each case, and put them through Basics, where a full course of fforce work was done. When we finished FTP, and began pattern blinds, part of promoting drive included not picking on them for "steadiness" when they were cued up for blinds, via "dead bird" cue. We gradually imposed steadiness as they maintained eagerness, as well as composure, and ended up with nice solid stylish blind running dogs.

    Both because MH's. More importantly, both were stylish eager dogs on blinds.

    EvanG
    Pretty much hit it right mr Evan, promiting drive first without much correction that might discourage that drive (to begin with)
    Train,Hunt,Enjoy

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