RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

first time training, and getting discouraged in transition pattern blinds

11K views 49 replies 15 participants last post by  dtmanring 
#1 ·
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3MHpCvCJDk&feature=plcp

Here is a video of what is becoming a discouraging situation for me. I spent all last week teaching this pattern blind, and when we reache the end of the 120yrd blind she started avoiding some verry minial cover as you will see on the go and return as she approaches the pile. I spent all this week tring to correct her line at the end.

To begin with when i started teaching this blind i did not even think there would be a problem , but she obviously does not like the change in the height of the grass although it is not but maybe 3in where the bush hog cut uneven.

Things i have tried.
1.move up to where she begins to flare and send.
2. move back away from where she begins to flare and run it from there and correct when she begins to flare.
3.handle when she flares to get her back on line.

over the week she has gotten her line a little better but still flares 5 to 10 yards compared to the 15 yards in the video??

should i be worried about this?
should i move locations to a place with absolutley nothing to flare from?
should i just move on to another leg?

this one week job is turning into a three week one due to this little flare, and i dont know if i should just move locations?

Thanks alot.
 
See less See more
#32 · (Edited)
DT, I've trained exactly one dog through pattern blinds so I have no advice about the "problem" you see. But it looks like you got an answer from several very experienced people: don't worry about the line.

I am curious, though. As you were teaching her the line to the pile, backing up gradually, she had to run through the patch you think she is avoiding. What did she do? At what point did the alleged problem appear?

The lack of steadiness at the line may haunt you as you try to progress on blinds. If she is not steady at your side, it is hard (for me) to imagine that she is steady in the field some distance away from you. Just newbie thoughts.
 
#33 ·
In our progression back to the line he started the flair thing once we were sending at 80yards and she got to the minimal cover at 60yards.

And in regards to the creep i was preventing with the finger, she lines up and when i say dead bird she inches forward, then if i say good girl she may inch forward again. But i figure i can fix this i wa just letting her get away with it for the time being and not hammering a correction on it that might slow her momentum.
 
#34 · (Edited)
One more thing I wanted to say, I think posting a Youtube video of you and your dog is brilliant. I usually don't offer an opinion on training issues as so much is lost in translation. People who are new to dog training tend to misinterpret what their dog is doing and thinking, and they project an assumption that may be wrong. Then we go on for pages making trianing suggestions that could be the exact wrong approach because we didn't see the dog personally.

This video is a good example, DT viewed it as a problem with his dog flairing off cover, when the real problem was the initial line, the dog was actually correcting herself as he closed in on the blind. Another thing DT never mentioned that he had to hold his dog's collar to keep her from creeping as he didn't view that as a problem, or very important at this stage, watching the video, some have pointed out that issue as well.

John
 
#37 ·
John is quite right about Wagon Wheel Lining drills. On patterns you should pay attention to your dynamics, as you should when sending on any other retrieves. But initial lines are taught on WWLD. Specifically, the first WWLD with a circle of 8 small white bumpers. (the inner ring)



The outer ring are orange bumpers, and are set significantly past the white bumpers. On the first stage (white bumpers-only) the drill is more about positioning and moving with the handler than lining. Once you move on to lining between the whites to the orange you are working on initial lines.

Are these drills familiar to you?

Evan
 
#39 ·
John is quite right about Wagon Wheel Lining drills. On patterns you should pay attention to your dynamics, as you should when sending on any other retrieves. But initial lines are taught on WWLD. Specifically, the first WWLD with a circle of 8 small white bumpers. (the inner ring)



The outer ring are orange bumpers, and are set significantly past the white bumpers. On the first stage (white bumpers-only) the drill is more about positioning and moving with the handler than lining. Once you move on to lining between the whites to the orange you are working on initial lines.

Are these drills familiar to you?

Evan

Yes sir these are familiar, i thought they were started later in training after pb.?
 
#41 ·
That's when I do it. Some run them sooner. But I prefer to get my PB work done first, and then start gradually refining initial lines. Are you following a program?

Evan
 
#38 ·
This is the 8-bumper version you should start with.



Evan
 
#40 ·
And in regards to the creep i was preventing with the finger, she lines up and when i say dead bird she inches forward, then if i say good girl she may inch forward again. But i figure i can fix this i wa just letting her get away with it for the time being
Bold added by me.

You fix this by never letting it develop into a problem in the first place. In basic puppy/hot dog/cookie training and later in collar conditioning the dog should have been taught a solid sit standard. Now you've got a bad habit to break. Easier to not let it develop int he first place.
 
#43 ·
Are you training with any of the very knowledgable trainers in your area? What do they say about your concerns/progress?

5 minutes with one of those guys is 1000x more valuable than 5 pages of Internet advice, with or without YouTube.
 
#44 ·
I started the wagon wheel early - after mini - T, I think. Just 4 bumpers, then 6. Maybe 1-2 X a week at the most, usually after pile work. He needed lots of work turning - push/pull cue experience.

What I REALLY got out of it was learning to WAIT TO BE SENT! If he 'broke' during pile work, I didn't want to always call him back, so I would let him continue on once in a while. The wagon wheel taught he and I to work together. Now, doing pattern blinds, he a great sit, is very focused, and I can read his 'intent', whether it's MY intent or not! He just turned a year old.

Debbie
 
#45 ·
I started the wagon wheel early - after mini - T, I think. Just 4 bumpers, then 6. Maybe 1-2 X a week at the most, usually after pile work. He needed lots of work turning - push/pull cue experience.

Debbie
That speaks to a difference in programs, as much as anything else. In my program you would have cleared the pattern blind work during the same time Mini-T is done. It just depends on your skill progression.

Evan
 
#46 ·
Evan,

In my case it had more to do with available land without foxtails for summer work. (and where we were in training) The green belt I have to train on has grass (and weeds), and is somewhat mowed/watered by the city. Pattern blinds there can only be 60 yds or so and it's also where I can do pile work. There are 2 areas of 100 yds long by 60 yds wide. Not a lot of options. For wagon wheel, I just faced the opposite direction and did up to 9 bumpers, and not very tight. There is still more refined work to do with that, of course.

I did start the concept of pattern blinds at this green belt, while I put in motion the re-joining of the club necessary to use the best training within a 30 min drive (where I can go any day). That's Ogier Rd in Morgan Hill if any of you know the area. It's a great area for puppy through with transition work.

Debbie
 
#49 ·
I'm not answering for the OP. But I do think I can she a bit of light on why you may see this happen sometimes. I've only had two dogs that I can remember allowing a bit of creep on blinds, and I only allowed it for a brief period. Both were well bred dogs, but that did not show a great deal of prey drive in their first 8-10 months.

We elected to go ahead in each case, and put them through Basics, where a full course of fforce work was done. When we finished FTP, and began pattern blinds, part of promoting drive included not picking on them for "steadiness" when they were cued up for blinds, via "dead bird" cue. We gradually imposed steadiness as they maintained eagerness, as well as composure, and ended up with nice solid stylish blind running dogs.

Both because MH's. More importantly, both were stylish eager dogs on blinds.

EvanG
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top