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Thread: Encouragement for amateurs and pos. trainers in field trials

  1. #21
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moscowitz View Post
    Jennifer not to down play the accomplishments of the 5 qual. But there are some great Goldens out there running with the big boys and can hold their own. There's Elizabeth Wilson with Woody just needs a win for an FC, there's Purdy, Tri Fecta and more. I don't see these dogs as Goldens. I see them as good dogs.
    By the way who is your dog out of? I like dogs sired by Push.
    Finally this was a bad year for Goldens - two of my favorite Goldens passed - Marshall Richards Star and Ellis Ibbotson's Brandy. Brandy is Woody's Dam. I think of them often.
    I see Goldens that are running with the big dogs in the big Stakes as....good Golden Retrievers, acknowledging the great talent in the breed. I do see them as Golden Retrievers...and am very proud to own, train and run them.

    Congratulations on your thoughtful training, Jennifer.

    Congratulations to Lindsay Ridgeway and his Golden Retriever on 5 Q JAMS!! ...against amateurs and pro's..

    Judy
    Last edited by Judy Chute; 12-02-2012 at 08:57 PM.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Do you have some evidence for this other than anecdotal?
    No it's anecdotal. But I'm not just talking about not using the ecollar. I'm talking about clicker training the sit, heel, whistle sit, fetch, hold etc etc., then using positive reinforcement training methods for honest water entry, channel swimming, avoiding poison birds, etc. I'm not talking about using a rat gun instead of an ecollar, or using tennis shoe training to run the dog down for a correction. I'm talking about using positive reinforcement science in lieu of negative reinforcement science. Although, I do use a little neg. reinforcement or punishment in my training - I use the word "no" and some blocking.

    Moscowitz, thanks for the note about Goldens. I know there are a lot of greats! My pup is out of FC AFC CFC CAFC OTCH TNT's Stanley Steamer. Her maternal grandsire is FC AFC CFC CAFC OTCH TNT's Explosion. And so far she seems like a chip off the ole block. But we'll see.

    Here's my question prefaced with a statement: I posted this thread to show newbies and amateurs like myself that it's possible to be successful finishing Quals even with your first trial dog, even if you're competing against pros. And even if you don't use compulsion/force. Why would anyone see this as a negative? or be threatened by it?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Thank so much for your comments Judy Chute. It means a lot coming from you! And thanks to Erin and the rest for the good comments!! This is a positive thing no matter how a person decides to train.

    Claimsj - not sure it's ego getting in the way when you are training your dog to maximize his/her enjoyment of the sport and training. It is his journey to train this way and really enjoy his dog. If it was ego, he would be more concerned about a title and not care how he got it.

  4. #24
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    No it's anecdotal. But I'm not just talking about not using the ecollar. I'm talking about clicker training the sit, heel, whistle sit, fetch, hold etc etc., then using positive reinforcement training methods for honest water entry, channel swimming, avoiding poison birds, etc. I'm not talking about using a rat gun instead of an ecollar, or using tennis shoe training to run the dog down for a correction. I'm talking about using positive reinforcement science in lieu of negative reinforcement science. Although, I do use a little neg. reinforcement or punishment in my training - I use the word "no" and some blocking.

    Moscowitz, thanks for the note about Goldens. I know there are a lot of greats! My pup is out of FC AFC CFC CAFC OTCH TNT's Stanley Steamer. Her maternal grandsire is FC AFC CFC CAFC OTCH TNT's Explosion. And so far she seems like a chip off the ole block. But we'll see.

    Here's my question prefaced with a statement: I posted this thread to show newbies and amateurs like myself that it's possible to be successful finishing Quals even with your first trial dog, even if you're competing against pros. And even if you don't use compulsion/force. Why would anyone see this as a negative? or be threatened by it?
    Because it's different. This game breeds experts. We all think our way is the best, or only way... And everyone else is doing it wrong.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claimsadj View Post
    But what could the dog be ha the trainer taken advantage of all of the technology available today? Special dogs are hard to come by. I'm not knocking anyone for how they train but rather playing devils advocate. I would hate to know I had a really special dog and I let pride get in the way of the dog maxing out its potential.
    Part of the technology available today includes the clicker. How have you taken advantage of clicker training? Also playing the devil's advocate.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  6. #26
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    To each his/her own.

    I would not be encouraged by a person with a 5 year old dog, who had only obtained a JAM, regardless of methodology.
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  7. #27

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    Thats very impressive!
    If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
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    Looks like, counting Cape Fear...4 JAMS and 2 Reserve JAMs. All but one JAM earned this season, 2012.

    Topbrass Lad of the Lakes SH WCX **, "Laddie"..nice pedigree!
    Last edited by Judy Chute; 12-02-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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    UCDX HR SR Sand Dancer's XX MTB Ranger UDT, MH, WCX **
    HR SR Scarlett's Andi O'Malley CD SH OA NAJ CGC (OAJ-2 Placements) 9/16/1995-3/31/2011

  9. #29
    Senior Member JustinS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    To each his/her own.

    I would not be encouraged by a person with a 5 year old dog, who had only obtained a JAM, regardless of methodology.
    ha, Ted you sure know how to rip the cap off of the bottle.

    I was encouraged to see that he had trained a dog by himself and did at least get acknowledgement at the trial, but in the same respect a JAM will not get you a point. People run field trials to title their dogs paying upwards of at least $200 a weekend when you figure in fuel, time and entry fees. If you want to just do it because you enjoy running your dog then you can do hunt tests where they go against a standard.

    I am not a field trialer but I completely understand where Ted is coming from paying $1000 this trial season and getting nothing other than a nod is not very encouraging.
    Justin E Schneider

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    "Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail." -- Josh Billings

    Some peoples stiffest competition is themselves.--MooseGooser

  10. #30
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Darrin,

    Some, ok, a lot of the 100% pos camp do think you are devil incarnate. They also think hunting and killing birds and owning guns is the devil's work, too.

    I don't feel that way and Lindsay has said he doesn't feel that way. I am a bird hunter and own guns and I have friends who use the ecollar and force methods whom I respect. So does Lindsay, according to what he has written.

    If I or Lindsay felt the way you portray in your post, I don't think either of us would be Lardy disciples.

    But, yes, I guess if there are a few or a lot of positive only people ranting negative things about collar users, that would cause a defensive stance.

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