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Encouragement for amateurs and pos. trainers in field trials

24K views 105 replies 46 participants last post by  awackywabbit 
#1 ·
A guy with his first field trial dog (a golden) who trains with positive methods and no help from a pro or ecollar or force fetch - got his 5th Qual Jam of the year this weekend at Cape Fear.

The last series, he was the only golden and I think he was the only amateur owner/handler.

Not bad.

Yes, the dog is 5 and it's a minor stake, but it looked to be some pretty stiff competition.

Guys name is Lindsay Ridgeway with a Topbrass bred dog.
 
#2 ·
I have to ask, what is Positive methods in your mind. I believe most people incorporate positive methods in their traiing besides using trained fetch (FF) and the collar.
 
#3 ·
Yes, I know you're right about that. Here's my definition: not using compulsion training or force training and using mainly motivation and positive reinforcement.

Want to add that Lindsay says he following Mike Lardy's TRT training model but without the compulsion element or collar corrections. I am doing the same and with much success so far with my 9 mos old.

No criticism to anyone who does use compulsion force, just not what I do.
 
#5 ·
I'm saying that it's encouraging for me to see that an amateur training his first ft dog who happens to be a Golden and using non-compulsion training, can finish 5 Field Trial Qualifying stakes with a jam against a field of mainly pro trained/handled labs.

That's it, the end. A lot of us training our first field trial dog are nervous and uncertain about competing at field trials. Add on the factors of running a dog whose not a lab and not trained with the same method all the others are trained with and you have a cocktail of things to be nervous about.
 
#11 ·
No one is sure if a method will be successful until it is actually a success. No one has ever gotten 5 Qual jams in one season with a Golden trained without compulsion and force fetch, until now.

I'd be willing to bet that joe schmoe training his first dog with a collar and all the normal stuff is also uncertain about their method? Certainty and confidence only comes with certain success.

Were you certain that you were going to finish the last series of any trial stake before you got there?
 
#14 ·
No one is sure if a method will be successful until it is actually a success. No one has ever gotten 5 Qual jams in one season with a Golden trained without compulsion and force fetch, until now.
Do you have some evidence for this other than anecdotal?
 
#12 ·
By the way Jennifer I am an amatuer, Tim Carrion is an amatuer and we run field trials. Oh yeah we run chessies and don't use that as an excuse. All my dogs have been very soft.
 
#15 ·
Jennifer not to down play the accomplishments of the 5 qual. But there are some great Goldens out there running with the big boys and can hold their own. There's Elizabeth Wilson with Woody just needs a win for an FC, there's Purdy, Tri Fecta and more. I don't see these dogs as Goldens. I see them as good dogs.
By the way who is your dog out of? I like dogs sired by Push.
Finally this was a bad year for Goldens - two of my favorite Goldens passed - Marshall Richards Star and Ellis Ibbotson's Brandy. Brandy is Woody's Dam. I think of them often.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I see Goldens that are running with the big dogs in the big Stakes as....good Golden Retrievers, acknowledging the great talent in the breed. I do see them as Golden Retrievers...and am very proud to own, train and run them.

Congratulations on your thoughtful training, Jennifer.

Congratulations to Lindsay Ridgeway and his Golden Retriever on 5 Q JAMS!! ...against amateurs and pro's.. :)

Judy
 
#17 ·
Um, we aren't talking about him training without a collar. Lindsay uses NO FORCE at all. No pinch collar, choke chain, ear pinch, yelling, heeling stick, scruff shakes, etc. None.

That's what makes the accomplishment special.
 
#18 ·
But what could the dog be ha the trainer taken advantage of all of the technology available today? Special dogs are hard to come by. I'm not knocking anyone for how they train but rather playing devils advocate. I would hate to know I had a really special dog and I let pride get in the way of the dog maxing out its potential.
 
#25 ·
Part of the technology available today includes the clicker. How have you taken advantage of clicker training? Also playing the devil's advocate.
 
#23 ·
Thank so much for your comments Judy Chute. It means a lot coming from you! And thanks to Erin and the rest for the good comments!! This is a positive thing no matter how a person decides to train.

Claimsj - not sure it's ego getting in the way when you are training your dog to maximize his/her enjoyment of the sport and training. It is his journey to train this way and really enjoy his dog. If it was ego, he would be more concerned about a title and not care how he got it.
 
#26 ·
To each his/her own.

I would not be encouraged by a person with a 5 year old dog, who had only obtained a JAM, regardless of methodology.
 
#29 ·
ha, Ted you sure know how to rip the cap off of the bottle.

I was encouraged to see that he had trained a dog by himself and did at least get acknowledgement at the trial, but in the same respect a JAM will not get you a point. People run field trials to title their dogs paying upwards of at least $200 a weekend when you figure in fuel, time and entry fees. If you want to just do it because you enjoy running your dog then you can do hunt tests where they go against a standard.

I am not a field trialer but I completely understand where Ted is coming from paying $1000 this trial season and getting nothing other than a nod is not very encouraging.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Looks like, counting Cape Fear...4 JAMS and 2 Reserve JAMs. All but one JAM earned this season, 2012.

Topbrass Lad of the Lakes SH WCX **, "Laddie"..nice pedigree!
 
#44 · (Edited)
And, he earned the RJ's..and two JAMs..4 in a row. Jennifer!, Reserve JAMS are recognition for exellent work :)

Certainly that shows that he and "Laddie" were becoming a team. Very nice ..that is a big deal no matter HT, FT..or level of competition. Congratulations on that...a great achievement..so hope to see more from this Team in 2013!!!

He has a FT bred Golden Retriever if anyone cares to look:

http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=257111 (love that hip clearance..congrats on that, too)
 
#30 ·
Darrin,

Some, ok, a lot of the 100% pos camp do think you are devil incarnate. They also think hunting and killing birds and owning guns is the devil's work, too.

I don't feel that way and Lindsay has said he doesn't feel that way. I am a bird hunter and own guns and I have friends who use the ecollar and force methods whom I respect. So does Lindsay, according to what he has written.

If I or Lindsay felt the way you portray in your post, I don't think either of us would be Lardy disciples.

But, yes, I guess if there are a few or a lot of positive only people ranting negative things about collar users, that would cause a defensive stance.
 
#32 ·
Anybody read what Ted said or, am I the only person who hasn't ignored him? Congrats on the placement. Any guy who trains his own dog should be proud of any ribbon. Ted gets coal in his stocking.
 
#46 ·
Anybody read what Ted said or, am I the only person who hasn't ignored him? Congrats on the placement. Any guy who trains his own dog should be proud of any ribbon. Ted gets coal in his stocking.
I'm not concerned with what encourages him. Anyone with money can buy a dozen dogs, get pro's to train them, wash 90% of them out and boast about those that succeed. More importantly I've gained more satisfaction watching a problem dog make progress, sometimes never getting anywhere from a title perspective. If blue ribbons are your only measure of encouragement, satisfaction or success metric, you're gonna be one huge grouch...

/Paul
 
#41 · (Edited)
#40 ·
Yes I agree and they should be congratulated. Having said that there have been quite a number of dogs that were trained in the past by the , don't know all the new fangled buzz words, but, positive training? I have a friend who has made I think at last count eight FC/AFC's or AFC etc. and at least one of those dogs was trained without a collar and not with "boot ,shoot and electrocute". Oh by the way it was a Labrador. Having said that with the high level of dogs running trials I think it would be very difficult to make a "big boy" dog in the all-age circa 2012 by strictly motivational training, think I have that correct. Just one man's opinion.
 
#43 ·
The last series, he was the only golden and I think he was the only amateur owner/handler.
Just to clarify: First, Second and Third were owner handlers. 4th may also have been but I don't remember all of the placements.

Nevertheless, Laddie is a fine animal.
 
#52 ·
The proudest I've ever been of a ribbon was that first Q JAM with my first FT dog. Rorem has a nice talk about setting goals sequentially and reaching them.

Finish a trial.....then try for placements......then for titles......then qualify for a national.......then NFC......etc.

Most will be stuck at the first two but you can still love the process and acchieve satisfaction.
 
#54 ·
Jennifer - I'm sorry that some folks feel the need to take someone else's view of their own PERSONAL success and belittle it. It's not like you were trying to say hey - look at this -this is why my way is right and yours is wrong. In fact, in most of your posts it seems like you are always quick to say you don't necessarily think we (I use "we" here becuase I use a collar and FF) are wrong. You've chose a different path becuase you enjoy that path. It's not the path for me, but hey, that's ok. I'm glad you are happy with it. I'm glad you and some of your friends are enjoying some success that is fulfilling to you. Isn't that all that really matters in the end? A girl spending time with her dog, enjoying it and the dog being happy and loved? Maybe not to everyone - maybe the color of the ribbons matters more than the path to some folks. Again, not my way of thinking, but hey, doesn't mean it's wrong. No matter which method you use - yours, or mine - finding your own personal fulfillment is really all that matters. Congrats to you.
 
#55 ·
I AGREE 1000%, people should not gauge somebody else's success by their own...........
 
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