"So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold
"The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin
Delivering the bird to hand is part of the requirements, so holding it becomes part of the test. Holding a glove or hat (or any other object) could be seen as using a training device thereby making it unallowable. It just depends on the judges on what you can and can't do.
perfect example and done it many times.he original post does not say that the handler/dog are asked to step back into the holding blind while the blind is being planted. There are many times when there is already a dog in the holding blind and the judges instruct the handler to just "turn" the dog so he can't see the birdboy planting the blind in the field. Under these circumstances and depending on the handlers decision to do so, it can be benificial to let the dog hold the bird so he doesn't want to turn back around to view the field. It all boils down to knowing your dog and what would work best given the scenario.
Last edited by Pete; 12-04-2012 at 08:35 AM.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalms 12: 8
The wicked walk on every side when the vilest men are exulted
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
The practise can definitely have benefits, but if the judges want things done in a certain sequence, that's what you are going to have to do. Ran a Master water test in which there was a delayed triple with a poison bird blind. Two marks down, run the blind, and when the dog returned, you were to set the dog up, and when you took the blind bird from the dog they would fire the third mark off. I would rather have had my dog hold the bird while the mark was shot, but that wasn't what the judges wanted, so she was distracted following the bird away instead of watching the mark go down. Missed it entirely. Revealed a hole in our training, and gave us something to work on!
Last edited by sterregold; 12-04-2012 at 11:30 AM.
Shelly Blom & the Sterre Goldens
"Breeze" HR Trowsnest Sterre Autumn Breeze MH CCA/Can SH WCX
"Butch" Can. Ch Sterre Badlands Outlaw JH WCI CDX/Am JH
"Bonnie" Sterre Texas Bluebonnet JH WCI/Am JH
"Winter" Can/UKC Ch Amberwood Winter Wonderland SH WCX CD CCA VC/Can SH CD WCX VCI (at the bridge)
I'm gonna just throw this out there, there seems to be an assumption that there is an issue with the dog - I try and leave the bird in mouth as long as I can especially if you do not return to a holding blind. I also feel rushing to pull a bird out of a dog's mouth aggravates issues, it's better to be methodical on delivery and I highly dislike judges who crowd and rush the process. As long as the dog is not mouthing the bird what does a judge care? There is no rule that says they have to give the bird up right then and there, I'd rather see a clean delivery than a rushed one like Howard described.
"You can't eat a pig whole, but you can eat a whole pig." - Joe S.
Proudly Owned By:
MHR HR Flash Of Mischief SH CD CGC - Flash (10/15/98 - 10/8/12)
Lightning Fast Quack Attacker QA2 - Bullet (11/22/2003 - 03/05/2016)
Gotta Heart Of A Warrior - Ranger (12/26/07 - 8/10/2010)
SML's Gettin' Sexy With It QA2 - Tango
FOM's Raising a Ruckus in the Rockies QA2 - Riot
FOM's Fugitive From Justice - Bandit
FOM's Number One Small Caliber Bullet of CTC - "Ichi the Terrorist"
I know of one particular dog who is hard to move once you take the bird out of his mouth. You line him up, move him how you want then take the bird, then he's pretty much froze, so you better line him up when he's got the bird. I guess he was trained this way, I see plus and minus in this way of training, as a froze non-swinging dog facing the right direction is nice, but a froze dog who's a little off is not. I believe the owner let's him keep the bird until he's lined up on the blind. I've never been asked for a bird by a judge, unless other stickiness issues were present.
Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 12-04-2012 at 11:14 AM.
"They's Just DAWGS"; "I train dogs, Not papers"
"Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
GMRH-I HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast) Rip. July-2014
GMHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
MHR HR Storm SH (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)
I just dont understand all the talk???
Dog comes back to me. Dog sitting at heel.
I take bird from dog.
Turn dog to a front finish.
If my dog turns its head and looks... What entity doidnt plan the mechanics of the test well?
If the judges dont want the dog to see the blind planted,,,, Then take measure so that CANT happen..
have another holding blind away from the line,,and have the Handler move to it as the dogreturns,, and then recieve the dog in the holding blind.. As soon as MY dog gets there,, I'm takin the bird...
If the OP is talkin about some Training ritual he goes through,, then I agree with what someone very early in the thread said to the effect that Yes,, you can require the dog to hold the biird,, but remember,, you are under judgement during that period of time. If the dog starts to mouth, drop and wont pick up, or,, if you have to Coax him to do so,, I wont take that chance..
I really dont understand this thread... As usual ,, I am lost...
I have a very busy dog, who is always ready to go, "come on come on, ...what's goin on , lets get it on" When the judges have you receive the dog in the holding blind, my dog will sit quieter if she has a bird in her mouth, in fact she is pretty patient. Once I take the bird, she is trying to sneak a peek at what is going on and I have to stay on her more.
Last month, I was standing there with Olive holding the bird, waiting for the judge to say "ok" to pick up the blind, while I was standing there looking at the dog, the judge said " I will take the bird" aww fooey...ok ........
I THINK this is what the OP is talking about
Sight To Sea Labradors
Southern Cross at Sight to Sea MH QAA "Crosby" (by NAFC FC AFC Cody Cut a Lean Grade)
Tealwood's Willing at Sight to Sea JH ( by CH I am Able)
Briarglen's Running on Faith JH (by FC Fish River's Out of the Park)
Glendair's Come Home to the Sea ( By Ch Topform's Edward MH, QAA)
Sight To Sea's Take Aim SH (by Sight to Sea's Southern Comfort SH )Aug 23 2003-Feb 2013 Go get em , Man!
Manager of www.DeCoverlykennels.com