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Thread: Hiroshima VS. Detroit

  1. #51
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    It is a whole college degree in economic geography, political policy, business practices, automation, labor relations, demographics, race relations, foreign competition, international trade deals, race relations, etc. For $7000 a semester I'll be glad to be your instructor.

    PS: You mean Jail Bird Denny??
    Should I have said Mickey Lolich or Gates Brown??
    Last edited by road kill; 12-06-2012 at 07:54 AM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    In a nutshell, Detroit FAILED TO COMPETE! So it can whine and complain it is a victum. Instead of spending $7000/semester(poor efficiency), how about just taking a look at what Tn, Al, Ms, Ky, Ga has done then you will see how to compete. This is where the auto industry resides and is doing quite well. Then again you probably call this foreign competition.
    No I don't live in detroit, I live in Tn.(the US auto capital) and the US capital of the auto industry competes and is doing quite well. By the way nothing in the auto bailout helped nor was needed here. In fact probably hurt.
    Without the bailout GM wouldn't be pumping $460 million into the Spring Hill plant.

  3. #53
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    See if you vote democrat they vilianize you. Detroit votes democrat...no more need be said.

    Just wait until Tenn falls victim to a change....I guess you can blame it on wellfare then too.

  4. #54
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    [QUOTE=menmon;1041520]See if you vote democrat they vilianize you. Detroit votes democrat...no more need be said.

    We have complete control over our competiveness and none over the stupidity of the Fed Gov. rules and regulations. Just ask South Carolina about that.

    As for spring hill, GM CLOSED THE PLANT, the only one in the state to do so. There were many offers to buy the plant from GM and without the bailout it would have been sold and the state WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER OFF!!!!! The plant would have reopened much sooner had it been sold. What was preserved by the bailout was GM ownership of the plant, the only union auto plant in Tn. THAT'S WHAT THE BAILOUT DID.

    The only victim saved was DA UNION, as RK would say. Saturn was a loser and now I wonder what loser GM will create now. Oh I forgot, we may have GM bailouts ad infinitum.

  5. #55
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Should I have said Mickey Lolich or Gates Brown??
    That will work.
    Zeus

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  6. #56
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    the Best things to come out of Detroit

    1. Al Kaline

    2. Bob Seeger and the Silver Bullet Band

    3. Mitch Ryder

    4. The Supremes
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  7. #57
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    In a nutshell, Detroit FAILED TO COMPETE! So it can whine and complain it is a victum. Instead of spending $7000/semester(poor efficiency), how about just taking a look at what Tn, Al, Ms, Ky, Ga has done then you will see how to compete. This is where the auto industry resides and is doing quite well. Then again you probably call this foreign competition.
    No I don't live in detroit, I live in Tn.(the US auto capital) and the US capital of the auto industry competes and is doing quite well. By the way nothing in the auto bailout helped nor was needed here. In fact probably hurt.
    Nope, I call it TVA, a federal government corporation.

    Compete with what? The textile industry? I see a lot of roads in Georgia that once lead to turpentine stills. Where are they now? Economic conditions change. Not all are communities are able to respond. No question there was some arrogance involved in the fall of Detroit. There certainly was a '"why fix it if it ain't broke mentality." But to lay the blame to one specific cause doesn't fully explain how the train wreck happened.

    Detriot had a real advantage after World War II. Most of the world's non American auto production had destroyed and it took quite some time for foreign production to ramp up. When it did the initial results were a bit feeble. Remember three wheeled BMW Isettas with a motorcycle engine and a door in front. Or the early Hondas that were driven with a bicycle chain. But there techniques got better we then got that VW bug as sort of a niche car. The Japanese were able to capitalize on the oil embargo in 1973 when the Americans were still producing cars that were essentially a tennis court with two sofas in the middle. Management never saw it coming.

    The Japanese cars may have been smaller but their quality control was excellent. GM was a poster car for turning out junk. It was management's action not union action that had a practice of pushing flawed vehicles out the door to get them quickly on the market and then hoped to fix them later. Remember the Vega and the Chevy Citation? Or how about the Ford Escort that should have had "Zippo " painted on the side? There was the mid 70s Chrysler products that would die in the middle of an intersection, sitting there like a big fat target.

    Detroit's success had the seeds of it own destruction. As the plants were going like a house a fire in the 50's and 60's mechanization of agriculture was in full bloom in the south. This caused a migration out of fields into the industrial cities in the north--not only to Detroit but Chicago, Pittsburgh. Cleveland, Flint, etc. It created a surplus of labor. Many of the migrants were stuck in the unemployment trap and crime rates flourished. Those that could fled the central cities. Detroit didn't die, it just faded away to the suburbs.

    Detroit has a dependency on a pretty limited base. But it did have other alternatives that it has not successfully pursued to full potential. It may surprise you that Detroit is the nation's second film capital. In fast, more film footage is done by Detroit based companies than Hollywood. It produces mostly of the industrial and advertising footage, but it has had some success like Gran Turino.

    Localities that are dependent on one trick ponies are more vulnerable to decline than those that have a diversified economy.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 12-06-2012 at 05:44 PM.
    Zeus

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  8. #58
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    There was also the "bus ticket incentive" to move sponsored by several southern states.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  9. #59
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    In a nutshell, Detroit FAILED TO COMPETE! So it can whine and complain it is a victum. Instead of spending $7000/semester(poor efficiency), how about just taking a look at what Tn, Al, Ms, Ky, Ga has done then you will see how to compete. This is where the auto industry resides and is doing quite well. Then again you probably call this foreign competition.
    No I don't live in detroit, I live in Tn.(the US auto capital) and the US capital of the auto industry competes and is doing quite well. By the way nothing in the auto bailout helped nor was needed here. In fact probably hurt.
    By the way, Cary, your assertion that the TVA states are now the center of auto production is not borne by facts. In terms of employment, Michigan is number one and Ohio is number two. The traditional car and parts production is still dominated by the North.

    http://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm
    Last edited by zeus3925; 12-06-2012 at 07:12 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

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    [QUOTE=zeus3925;1041606]By the way, Cary, your assertion that the TVA states are now the center of auto production is not borne by facts. In terms of employment, Michigan is number one and Ohio is number two. The traditional car and parts production is still dominated by the North.

    http://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm[/QUOT
    I could be wrong but I have read that Michigan is #4 in the production of autos and Tn is #1. Maybe that is wrong. What I do know is that Nissan based in smyrna Tn. continues to increase production and new hires. Same for toyota, mercedes, vw, all based in the South. Not just yesterday and today, but for last year and the year before and before that. None needed a bailout. They did not need a bailout because they have maintained quality and kept their labor costs at a level that they can remain competitive(a responsibility of management, I might add). Looking at Detroit, one might surmise that is not the case there. In any event to say that the auto industry is dominated by the north is like saying a school with the large football stadium(tennessee?)dominates even though they have a losing team(and the fans are not showing up.

    PS Interesting that you should associate TVA with the states. You might check the history of TVA. The Gov. seized far more land via imminant domain at very little cost and have been selling the excess land at huge profits. Talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly, you could also have a college degree when studying TVA.

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