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Young noisy fire breathing dog

66K views 112 replies 51 participants last post by  CashCat 
#1 ·
Seems like alot of people have the same issues with their dogs...NOISE!!! I bought into a litter as did some of my clients last Feb. knowing some of us would be having to address noise issues....the time has come...

1) So...the dog is 10 months of age...noisy and crazy...
2) Going thru the yard program at the sit to a pile stage..
3) Must do something to fix the noise now or we may lose the dog totally...
4) Only using bumpers for retrieving NO BIRDS yet, afraid of what may happen!!

WHAT DO YOU DO NEXT?? Could anybody give me a step by step process to the fix?? Randy
 
#85 ·
Amongst other ideas, what I got out of this, that is new to me, is waiting them out for that period of time.
My older dog (now retired ) is one of those fire breathers. I wish I'd had this knowledge back when he was a youngster.
I'm sure I'll be applying this stuff with my 10 month old.
Thanks for the help Randy.
 
#88 ·
If you have a food motivated dog, doing OB with the food bowl down is a good way to work with a dog that is in drive. I have found that it translates into the field as well. I have not trained that many dogs, but all of the ones I have had are high and will drive the bus if given the opportunity. Doing drills with the food bowl down requires them to focus on me when they would rather focus on the food. The first few times were very telling and the behavior similar to FT behavior. Now, the OB is part of the feeding chain. I put down the bowl and she looks at me instead of the bowl. I do here, heel, sit, down, until I get good effort, then release to eat. Interestingly, after several months of this, she started getting silly and made a game of the OB. Sillyness is not effort, so I just stop and wait a couple of minutes, then continue. I transferred the same drills as a warmup to field training and before we go to the line at a trial. It just another training opportunity where you can demand high standards in the presence of a major distraction.
 
#89 ·
leemac.....( Have you or anyone else out there employed a chain gang close to the line of a training set up for young pups (ten weeks and older) to get the young dogs used to watching marks and knowing that all of the marks they see aren't for them?)

While researching the "noisey firebreather", I found that Charles Jurney uses the chain gang with success while training young dogs. I train with a small group of about 12 dogs, with 4 of them being noisey along with my firebreather. While we tried the chain gang and still use it, I found out that I got better results leaving my dog in her crate in the vehicle. The other dogs are still whining while on the chain gang, mine is quiet in the crate. Hope this helps.
 
#90 · (Edited)
One of the problem areas in field trials anyway most of these "ground pounders or Firebreathers" are great markers. We as amateur trainers like those ribbons. The trial game is very difficult at best and we start them off in the minor stakes (derby) we win or place and put them on the Derby List. We deal with the creeping, noise, not heeling to the line etc the best we can. We make them "test wise" now we want to fix it after all that excitement over a two year period. We watch while they do none of the antics in training, so we have nothing to work on except toenail moves dog gets corrected (slight movement in inches because feet in trial) We bust dog on the butt with the stick, we bring dog to the line, any noise dog gets put up, we stake dog out while other dogs work, we shoot many flyers, we use popper guns, we train in large groups to duplicate trial/test conditons and the list goes on and on. We go to the trial on the weekend and maybe get a few series in without problems, then the roof caves in by Sunday (especially in the all-age) but we are winning the trial. We take our ribbon and we think it's really great until the following weekend, then it starts all over again. More pressure is applied, dog starts sticking on birds(push in one area something else comes out) dog now runs out of the holding blind to the line leaving you standing trying to heel, heel, here here , your dog. You finaly get the the line and maybe the dog smacks the marks or the hampsters run around in the cage and the dog doesn't see anything but the flyer.

The above can be applied to the Hunt Test game too. I have been there and done that many times with some truley great dogs including one National Open Finalist. I just wonder how many of those 2nd places or JAMS were really wins but, due to line manners, noise, etc. well you will never no. I just don't seem to learn, but now I am a old man and have a young talented Derby dog who has run one derby and was pulled in the third series because I didn't like her demeanor! I may never run her in another Derby and just train for the all-age until she is ready to run. Maybe I have learned my lesson after all these years and maybe not I sure love those ribbons!

Randy has the best advice and obviously is very sucessful , start young keep the standard up and get to know what you have or get a experienced amateur or professional to evaluate. There is a difference between a puppy whine with excitement or whinning as they go for the bird vrs a very potential serious noise problem . That Derby, Junior, Started don't mean nothing if the risk is great down the road.
One man's opinion.
 
#92 ·
Wow! What a "spot on" post! I do believe Earl watched me and Indy from day one! No we didn't do the derbies, dog was almost two before training started, but by golly we chased that JH title and every other thing we could do. Its the trainer that has to get control over their own desires and emotions before you can expect the same control in the dog. I finally tried the method described by Randy when I was training with Sharon Potter. It definitely works. But Indy is too far gone and too trial wise so that as soon as we head for the line, he's driving the train again. I have trained my young dog using Hillman's method, and never needed stick, nick or tricks. He is really well mannered at the line, but alas, no where near the marker or as much drive as the others. Sadly I have found there is no such thing as a "do over" because no two dogs are going to have the same skills or problems. Hey, anybody tried cloning to get a second chance????
 
#91 · (Edited)
Randy, thanks for your advice on this. I am going to incorporate your ideas into my routine for sure.

As an overarching principle, would it be correct to say that you put the responsibility for compliance on the dog? For example, it seems you would give a command once, possibly with a light or moderate correction, and then wait the dog out until he complies. Is this the basic sequence added to a boatload of patience and waiting over several days?

Additionally, do you use a marker ("good dog") to indicate your desired behavior to the dog? Or do you send immediately upon compliance? If so, how do you begin to extend the time for compliance?
 
#98 ·
I should clarify also that the puppy fix program is alot different than the older dog program, we call it the 12 step program here and each step must be done 100% before moving on to the next step. Pam made a good observation with children in stores..stop this stop that blah blah blah, same with our dogs we train, which here or sit do you mean??
In the past few years we've rehabbed a bunch of dogs back into the competition world BUT there were a few that only could go so far because of their past. I remember one we fixed up (Running With The Devil Female ) she was like a volcano, she was high maintenance and I don't mean maybe and the owner decided to retire her. Another was just sold, she was trial smart with tons of go but trained well. Most dogs run competitive Qual. work and if they have the talent move on to the AA level.The dogs who didn't get to where the owners wanted to be had a real bad beginning childhood...sit sit sit sit here here here...or they had JR.hunt titles by 8 months of age before the good solid foundation was in place.
 
#102 ·
I should clarify also that the puppy fix program is alot different than the older dog program, we call it the 12 step program here and each step must be done 100% before moving on to the next step.QUOTE]

Randy, Would you mind posting your methods for dealing with an older dog with noise issues?

I have a 4 yr. old springer that explodes if he sees another dog making a retrieve. I've had a little success by putting both of my dogs at heel and only throwing the bumper if the noisy boy's quiet. As long as he can go first, he's quiet for just that one toss. If the other dog goes for the next toss, the noise is back.

I'm an amateur and this is the second dog I've ever trained. The first one was never noisy. To correct him I tried everything from grabbing his muzzle, bark collar, spraying him in the face with water, putting him back in the truck, etc. None of those things worked. I'm so glad to have your posts on this to help me. Even if I never get this dog's noise under control, I have the proper way to nip it in the bud so it doesn't get to this point on any pups down the road.

Thank you so much!
 
#101 · (Edited)
........"Running With The Devil lines, tough tough dogs. If you have one of those dogs high standards are a must, BUT when you get them repaired they're a beautiful sight to watch and to run..."

I'll say....phenomenal animals..takes an especially patient, calm, high standard maintaining handler/trainer so they run...and keep running and delivering.

Great thread...

Judy

Edit...Earl Dillow always has something of substance to post. Always reap some good stuff from a good read.
 
#103 ·
JAM, sorry but if i wrote the 12 step process down here it would take pages and pages, hours and hours..really it would. 12 steps of getting a dog that's older to be quiet is harder because don't look at the dog as a 4 yr. old dog look at his age as an adult somewhere around the age of 28 years of age? Is a 7 yr. old child easier to change behavior on or a 28 yr. old adult?? older they get the harder it is...but it can be done...Randy
 
#108 ·
Randy I have such a dog and have held him to the high standards since day one. It really wasn't what I bargained for when I picked up this pedigree. Figure he will make a better trainer out of me. I keep your notes in my daily training log and reach for them when I begin to lose it. Thank you so very much for the inspiration to keep at it.
 
#110 ·
I brought forward this thread. I read Randy's info which is excellent. Thanks Randy! My pup did his first flyer today at 8 months. After he left the line, he couldn't contain himself and let out a yippie yip! So I turned to this thread and read it over again. Great information here folks. IMHO
 
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