We corresponded about this dog a while back.........don't you remember ?It's a little bit more than baby puppy stuff and parlor tricks. Petsmart clicker training 10 years ago is not something to base an opinion on about current clicker training methods for retriever training. That would be like me basing my opinion on current ladies fashions on Kmart's latest offerings.
It's the same with ecollar training. You can buy one at Bass Pro Shop and read the brochure that comes with it and strap it on a dog and start training - that's not going to amount to much, either. That's not ecollar training ala Lardy or Dennis.
If you want to have a good discussion about clicker training or ecollar training, come to the table with a little more than parlor tricks and Petsmart, or Bass Pro and burn.
One reason I posted the thread on Lindsay getting 5 Qual Jams in one year is that it helps show that clicker training and R+ can achieve more than baby puppy training and parlor tricks. Not sure if you've competed at a Qualifying stake - I haven't - but I have an understanding of how challenging they are for any first time Am trainer of any training method. By the way, Lindsay wrote and said his dog Laddie got his first Qual Jam at age 3. Lindsay's life is not all about Field Trials, so it took until this year to get the other competitions under his belt.
I'm not trying to convince all newbies of anything as you intimated earlier. The tried and true methods are great! That's why I'm a giant fan of the Lardy DVDs and articles and am following them - with my own clicker and R+ twists and minus the compulsion force to pile stuff. It just is what is right for my hobby and my dog.
The cool thing is if I can come on RTF when things get complicated and say "how are you guys doing this and can you help me problem solve". I don't think we all need to be doing the exact same things the exact same way to do that - or to learn from each other.
Your posts seem to indicate that all of the knowledge about Retriever training is already known and tried and nothing new or different can possibly pan out, cause it hasn't been proved yet. I don't think that's true about any field. If innovation stops happening in anything worthwhile, we're in trouble.
BTW Did it ever occur to you that the dog may have gotten the JAMs in spite of this type of training and not because of it ?