The proof is in the pudding. Everyone would have jumped on the bandwagon if it were effective. Its not a new science after all.
Several years ago, I tried it on a very nice Springer pup because as you know, a “soft flush” is probably the #1 reason good dogs wash out of the Field Trial game. I made the assumption that the most common cause of it was inappropriate or excessive pressure during the steadying process so I thought I’d avoid that by using only P+. What I noticed is that as the dog learned that sitting at the flush meant that he’d get the reinforcement of a retrieve, he started to anticipate that he’d want to sit as soon as he made game.
Although the pup initially had a bold flush, it progressively slowed down until it looked “tentative”. This was clearly not a case of a soft dog blinking birds, in fact it was the opposite. The dog loved birds so much he was trying extra hard to make sure he got the retrieve.
From that experiment I learned that in order to develop & maintain the Bold flush required, I need to first encourage a dog by letting him catch clip winged pigeons often enough to keep him thinking that if he tries hard enough, he can snatch them from before they get away and to use aversives to keep him right on the “edge of control”. The 2Q approach, while effective in teaching the dog that “self-control brings a reward” is not appropriate for what I want in this case.
Last edited by Dave Flint; 12-11-2012 at 02:49 PM.
"The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
Aldo Leopold, Round River
I am new to the forum and I posted this thread to get a some opinions, I would have never imagined it would go this long or be this controversial. However, I have read some interesting points on this topic and appreciate everyone's input..
I would like to educate myself on some of these training methods. Whether or not I use them is to be seen. Knowledge has been an ongoing mission in my life and I am always learning from others, I don't see why these training methods should be any different.
Does anyone have references to these training methods? Books ,videos, websites....
I did order a copy of Robert Milners book and visited his website and watched some videos, I must say it's impressive!
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.
One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever
FC Tribute to Justice, JH "Honor"
FC AFC Contempt of Court "Ruckus"
Medal Of Honor, QAA "Valor"
HRCH Kirby's High Sierra, SH, QAA "Kirby" Feb. 19, 2002 - Aug. 14, 2014
HRCH Niki Snowbird, SH, QAA "Niki" July 22, 2001 - May 11, 2015
Southland Order In the Court, QAA "Gavel" July 17, 2002- March 24, 2013
Southland Rusty Nail - derby points, qual placements "Rusty"
Disoderly Conduct "Chaos" -qual placements
Thanks Susan for your reply to +R and -P.....just wanted to make sure I understood the symbols.
Yeah, RTF has made me forget things and driven me to drink on a few occasions too.Now where did I put my cocktail?
You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013
get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013
But they are NOT mutually exclusive. In fact, without a doubt, the most successful, expedient ... and the fairest TO THE DOG ... scenario is a trainer that is good at both AND has the skill and experience to read the dog he/she is training.
“Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980
Real Americans buy American.