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Thread: British Labs / No Force????

  1. #11
    Senior Member yellow machine's Avatar
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    I really hope this is not a continuing thread for weeks on end. Save your typing for something else.PLEASE
    A cold nose feels good on a hot day.....
    Majestic Oaks Liberty Belle JH

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Yawning widely and waiting for another protracted flogging of a dead horse. How many pages this time?

    Evan
    LoL!^^^
    Think I'll never understand why there's always an affiliation of dawgs trained Pos. Re- with our British friends across the pond.
    Just know I'm not the only American, (and Americans before me, and Americans before them), that's never completely forced a dog to do anything.
    That said-

    Know that after having trained my first Collar dog several years ago there's no going back...

    Lots of Ways to Train a Dog
    Dawgs are like Savings Accounts-
    You only get out of 'em what you put into 'em.

  3. #13
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    British training and no force training are not the same thing. In Britain aversives are used in training,just not collars or FF.

  4. #14
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    Force fetching is just a tool.

    Yes, American labs are bred to deliver the hand. ANY Lab, is bred to deliver to hand. Some are better at it then others but with reinforcement and working with on it its easy peasy.

    I think people get confused about the REASON for force fetching.

    Force fetching is the tool that is used to change retrieving from the dog's game to OUR game. It changes the dynamics of the "retrieve". It makes it a command vs "asking".

    To me, its the single most important tool in training. When I am out hunting, I don't want the dog to have a CHOICE to refuse. Get the bird, go when I tell you and go where I tell you.

    Upon the process of force fetch, its extended to teach and reinforce "non-natural" hunting tasks (ie handling).

    People get "sold" on the whole "non-force" program because it SOUNDS kindler and gentler. Its easier to "stomach" for most average trainers until....until....well until the "non-force fetched" dog quits. If it quits, you have NO TOOLS in place to compel it to do what you want it to do (retrieve).

    Also, please keep in mind, that the British do not hunt like we do. They do not sit in marshes and decoy ducks. They do not sit in pit blinds and call for geese.

    If I was going to go 4x4ing I would get a truck, I would NOT buy a mini cooper.

    WRL

  5. #15
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow machine View Post
    I noticed a handler issue also. The British trainers have such bad teeth the dogs are having a hard time understanding them.
    That right there is FUNNY!!!

    The most interesting post in the entire thread.

    Lonster

  6. #16
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    I think most dont understand force training and it is mainly because of the word force. Just because the word force is used doesnt mean the dog is being forced to do something it doesnt want to. It is simply a method of training.

  7. #17
    Senior Member leemac's Avatar
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    Has anyone out there seen a dog that would consistently handle a poison bird in a hunting situation that was trained without being force fetched, or without force to get the dog pasted the poison bird and on the the cripple that would be lost if it was not retrieved first?

    British or American or Chinese is of no consequence.
    "That's a fine dog you got there son. Looks like one of ya'll got the brains and the other one got the driver's license.".

  8. #18
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    British labs are born completly trained, I thought everyone knew that.
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by leemac View Post
    Has anyone out there seen a dog that would consistently handle a poison bird in a hunting situation that was trained without being force fetched, or without force to get the dog pasted the poison bird and on the the cripple that would be lost if it was not retrieved first?

    British or American or Chinese is of no consequence.
    Know what you're saying, (I think). And very much agree.

    Do have to answer yes to your question however...my own dog...however, it didn't come easy.
    And if you had the same set up in a HT, on land my dog back then would have handled well, but more than likely I'd have left the Test losing an entry fee.
    Dawgs are like Savings Accounts-
    You only get out of 'em what you put into 'em.

  10. #20
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    I have witnessed very nice British dogs. No arguments here that they can and will perform the task.

    My point is more on the no force required. All Labs need training to be usefull hunting companions. I have never met a person who trained with a current modern e collar program that returned to their old program.
    Mark Land

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