The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 21 of 34 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 210 of 333

Thread: British Labs / No Force????

  1. #201
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Watford, ONT
    Posts
    3,518

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnLandR View Post
    I wish.....
    Me too...:!!!!!:
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83047
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83051



    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  2. #202
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Elverson, PA
    Posts
    2,431

    Default

    You all are missing the point.
    Anyway, to be clear, the PB was in plain sight lying on cut grass.
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  3. #203
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Pa.
    Posts
    5,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    John, Maybe you meant this as a joke but why insult someone's dog?
    I thought the emoticon would have taken most of the guess work out of it..........But on a more serious note there has been a recent rule change dealing with certain types of poision birds for just that reason.

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  4. #204
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    North West Indiana (Valparaiso, Indiana) CHICAGO AREA
    Posts
    4

    Default

    After being a pro for forty years and sending home dogs that were only going to make good house pets because lack of talent to be a good retriever..A high majority of British labs did not make it.I have have seen some good ones but not many.Your field labs are bred for the whole package.

  5. #205
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    2,273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    You all are missing the point.
    Anyway, to be clear, the PB was in plain sight lying on cut grass.
    I gathered that you were very impressed!
    Renee P

  6. #206
    Senior Member crackerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LABRADORS UNLIMITED View Post
    After being a pro for forty years and sending home dogs that were only going to make good house pets because lack of talent to be a good retriever. A high majority of British labs did not make it. I have have seen some good ones but not many.Your field labs are bred for the whole package.
    Didn't make what? - all-age FT dogs or duck dogs? To get this thread back on track, maybe you used too much force, or electricity...(which, km, is not necessarily a good idea when teaching our kind of poison bird blinds).

    MG

  7. #207
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,326

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LABRADORS UNLIMITED View Post
    After being a pro for forty years and sending home dogs that were only going to make good house pets because lack of talent to be a good retriever..A high majority of British labs did not make it.I have have seen some good ones but not many.Your field labs are bred for the whole package.
    A high majority, you mean well over 50% ? Wow, that's quite a statement. Were these field bred Labs from the States or were they Labs imported from overseas? I had the impression that in order for a Lab to get its Championship title in Britain it had to prove itself in the field. I would therefore expect higher percentage of field capable Labs. Maybe I'm way off base. Show me where I'm wrong.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  8. #208
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Oakdale,ct.
    Posts
    2,811

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    According to my calculations, 5 degrees from the line to the blind means the poison bird lands about 6 yards from the line to the blind if thrown at 50 yards, and it lands about 9 yards from the line if thrown at 100 yards.

    Yikes. I got work to do!

    At HT distances, 10 degrees works nicely. If you see a 50 foot over towards the end of a blind, rest assured that the score will be ugly. Likewise, if you have a bunch of scalloping angle backs enroute, it will be equally ugly.

    5 degrees works fine for a FT blind where the poison bird is at 150-200 yards and the blind bird at 3-ish. If the line to the blind is down wind of the line to the bird and the wind is angling in towards the mat, the dog is in the scent cone a loooong time, further strengthening the mental image of the bird that was thrown.

    There are poison bird blinds and then there are POISON BIRD BLINDS.....

    I think I'll start a new thread. This is really outside the original discussion.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  9. #209
    Senior Member Bartona500's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Tupelo, Mississippi
    Posts
    366

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgnyc View Post
    A high majority, you mean well over 50% ? Wow, that's quite a statement. Were these field bred Labs from the States or were they Labs imported from overseas? I had the impression that in order for a Lab to get its Championship title in Britain it had to prove itself in the field. I would therefore expect higher percentage of field capable Labs. Maybe I'm way off base. Show me where I'm wrong.
    I agree. Now, I know of several US kennels advertising UK labs that are "the full package" who have a few FTCH's in the pedigree and the same amount of CH in there as well. No doubt several of these dogs won't "make it" to even meat dog status. But if you get into the game finding pedigrees from the UK, such as the two I showed in a recent thread on Bonnie & Clyde, I would certainly challenge that these dogs have no lesser chance of making it in the field than our AKC FC filled pedigrees. Granted they haven't been bred for the type of work required by AKC FT's, they are bred for excellent game fining abilities, drive, steadiness, bid ability, line manners, etc.

    Bottom line, the FT requirement differences between us and the UK, mixed with the high amount of breeding to FC's (here) and FTCH (there) has led to a distinguishable difference in the Labradors which requires distinct differences in training to reach the maximum potential of each dog. I know there are exceptions to these generalizations, but when talking about merely Gundog training (not the games) I certainly don't believe any more British dogs are culled than American dogs. If this is the case, the issue may be too much pressure... The same as teaching steadiness via British methods to a fire breathing FC American lab just may not be sufficient to keep her from breaking.
    -Barton Ramsey

  10. #210
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    England
    Posts
    154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartona500 View Post
    I agree. Now, I know of several US kennels advertising UK labs that are "the full package" who have a few FTCH's in the pedigree and the same amount of CH in there as well......
    Bottom line, the FT requirement differences between us and the UK, mixed with the high amount of breeding to FC's (here) and FTCH (there) has led to a distinguishable difference in the Labradors which requires distinct differences in training to reach the maximum potential of each dog. I know there are exceptions to these generalizations, but when talking about merely Gundog training (not the games) I certainly don't believe any more British dogs are culled than American dogs. If this is the case, the issue may be too much pressure... The same as teaching steadiness via British methods to a fire breathing FC American lab just may not be sufficient to keep her from breaking.
    Okay, we are WAY off original thread now, but I do feel I must just jump on this point about "British" dogs. The hypothetical dog that you mention above with both FT CH and CH in its pedigree would likely not be a top FT dog here. Our labradors are about as divided as they can be in this country into virtually two separate breeds, show vs working. There hasn't been a dual champion since, I think, about 1952. The two camps have diverged so much that they are unlikely to ever meet again.

    There are a few here that purport to have 'dual purpose' labs, usually some show folk that dabble with 'working' their dogs in the field, but don't usually make the heights of trialling. On the whole, these dogs are "jacks of all trade,.....".

    So, folk that trial here will look for pedigrees that have purely FT CHs or FTWs in them and are totally 'working bred', and likewise, show folk will not want FT CHs in theirs, but go for purely CH. We breed for our specific discipline, thus making training so much easier, as we have the right material to start with.

    Sadly, I think the majority of dogs that are exported from UK to USA are dogs that haven't made the grade here! (otherwise they would be staying....) They are either not going to go 'all the way' and get made up to FT CH, or they have an eliminating fault (which may be acceptable in USA but not here), or are too hot perhaps.


    Finally, on the 'placement' of poison birds thing. In our UK Field Trials, none of our birds are 'placed' as it is all a natural, live shooting situation on a 'real' shoot or walked up shooting. So birds are taken as they come, or in the case of driven stakes, the judges may move the competitors if they want to make slightly more challenging retrieves, but the birds themselves are never moved (indeed, if one is touched by hand then it will be removed, as no bird that goes into the dogs mouth should have hand-scent on it, or have been picked by another dog).

    Hope that clears a few things up.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •