The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 6 of 34 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 333

Thread: British Labs / No Force????

  1. #51
    Senior Member mlp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    845

    Default

    The way I look at it is, if you want to train your dog with a collar then go for it , If you want to train your dog without a collar then go for it. Just train your dog because an untrained dog ain't much count for hunting in my opinion
    _____________________________________
    Don't trust anyone who would rent a pig !

  2. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cape Girardeau Mo.
    Posts
    1,365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    Yes, of course there is more than one way to train a dog......... but, to train a dog to successfully compete at the upper level of the AKC FT spectrum the logical choices are very limited

    john
    I agree John ...To be the top dog or dogs in the US it takes a lot ...but ..not all want to be any where near the top...for many reasons...time, expense , family matters, ect....To just make it as a so called good meat dog for the so called average hunter , the dog does not have to be able to jump through all the hoops a competition dog has to....As Mary said " there are many ways to train a retriever" ...The work requirement is far different...even a master HT dog is far over trained for some hunters and their needs...Steve S

  3. #53
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Watford, ONT
    Posts
    3,853

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    If these threads are not including the training for the upper levels of AKC FT's I stand corrected.

    If they are,.....there are logically few ways to train, and to do other wise is pure folly .

    john
    But John even though you think that way to others there are other ways to train folly or not!!!IMO

    John please clear some space so I can PM you. Thanks
    Last edited by Mary Lynn Metras; 12-05-2012 at 07:26 PM.
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA

    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI

    Metras's Hashtag Mickey

  4. #54
    Senior Member leemac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Edison, GA
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    I agree John ...To be the top dog or dogs in the US it takes a lot ...but ..not all want to be any where near the top...for many reasons...time, expense , family matters, ect....To just make it as a so called good meat dog for the so called average hunter , the dog does not have to be able to jump through all the hoops a competition dog has to....As Mary said " there are many ways to train a retriever" ...The work requirement is far different...even a master HT dog is far over trained for some hunters and their needs...Steve S
    I would have liked to have replied earlier but here goes.

    First off steve schreiner, this isn't a bash to you but more of a response from a former "meat dog" man who now wants to have the best retriever possible.

    Here's the scene.

    Flooded rice as far as the eye can see. 100 acre zero grade field in front of the pit blind. 100 acre zero grade behind the blind, but there is a wide (for north east Arkansas) levee directly behind the blind. If 100 acres zero grade has a couple to three inches of water on it, it looks like a 100 acre pond.

    Two ducks come in straight from in front of the blind at Mach 2. Both are easily in range before they are seen but because of there speed they are both passed the blind before they are shot. They are so close together when shot so the land only about five feet apart. The dog see's the birds shot but the actual fall is well beyond the last place either of us can see the birds. We have to get out of the blind and onto the levee to pick up these birds as blind retrieves.

    The left duck is stone dead with one wing standing straight up on the wind like a flag. The right bird is only a few feet away, with its head up slightly. My dog locks on the birds and I cue her up and let her go. She leaves the levee and launches into the field that has a deep ditch before you reach the inches deep expanse of running water beyond. As she crosses the ditch, the right bird drops its head and begins to scuttle off, trying to hide straight away from me and my dog. I quickly realize that we will have to pick up the cripple first if we will ever find it. I stop my dog short of the dead, flagging bird and give her a big verbal back away from it. She complies by taking the cast for three steps and then heading again for the left. A battle ensues. I get her within a few feet of the cripple but she is unsure because the obvious dead bird is behind her and the wind isn't in our favor. If I could go out and simplify I would. I lose her and we get only the dead bird.

    To make a long story short, I've since starting training on poison birds for this reason. The pro that helped me showed me how to train on this without pressure, except for lack of effort in doing the task at hand which is taking the cast given, no matter the distraction. I asked earlier if dogs can be trained to do this at distance on a regular basis, with out force fetching, pressure, aversive, or even purely positive training methods I would be interested in these methods that sound a lot like how I trained before I learned of our modern Rex Carr based methods. I wasn't as successful before I was enlightened.
    "That's a fine dog you got there son. Looks like one of ya'll got the brains and the other one got the driver's license.".

  5. #55
    Member Rick Vaughan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    85

    Default

    Paul...it's very unfortunate that you'll never get to hunt with my two girls, I'm sure it would be an experience you would talk about even on your death bed. My take is, "Life is too short to hunt with an ugly dog"....both of my girls were force fetch trained at about 9 months old, and there were hours and days of force to the pile and it paid off... they are more that floor cleaners, lab cabs, pets, they climb in the bed with me every night...and they are gorgous...just real gorgous....
    My Girls...
    Duckback's Lord Have Mercy, MH 8/07
    Duckback Armbrook's Indigo Pearl, SH 10/10

  6. #56
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Oakdale,ct.
    Posts
    2,892

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leemac View Post
    Has anyone out there seen a dog that would consistently handle a poison bird in a hunting situation that was trained without being force fetched, or without force to get the dog pasted the poison bird and on the the cripple that would be lost if it was not retrieved first?

    British or American or Chinese is of no consequence.
    I have owned 4, 2 of which I own, test and hunt with currently. Using force to teach poison bird skills is a bad idea, in my opinion. It should be broken down and trained in a drill format until it is thoroughly taught, then reinforced in a less controlled setting, which generalizes the behavior.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  7. #57

    Default

    I recently had the chance to hunt with a Brithish trained lab. The dog was trained at one of the top Kennels in the US that specialize in this type dog and system. All I can say is that I love the good ole USA training and breeding methods. When I am looking for a puppy and see "British or English" I keep looking.
    To quack, or not to quack, that is the question.


    SHR Ben Whistlin Dixie

  8. #58
    Senior Member Bartona500's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Tupelo, Mississippi
    Posts
    373

    Default Mine does

    Quote Originally Posted by leemac View Post
    Has anyone out there seen a dog that would consistently handle a poison bird in a hunting situation that was trained without being force fetched, or without force to get the dog pasted the poison bird and on the the cripple that would be lost if it was not retrieved first?

    British or American or Chinese is of no consequence.
    My girl does. I'll try to video this setup tomorrow and post it on this thread, if it doesn't wind up getting locked by the time I can upload the link.

    Mine would also handle the water situation mentioned. We train for this, and yes... We will walk out into the field and pick up the dog and put it back where it was before it refused a cast. Doesn't take them long to "get it."
    -Barton Ramsey

  9. #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Little Rock, AR
    Posts
    290

    Default

    There is a big difference in traditional British training and the positive reinforcement that Milner does.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Swack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp View Post
    And the appallingly bad manners of the dogs in the US are all too clearly reflected in their handlers who themselves are easily distinguished by their wobbly fat arses and waddling gait.

    Eug
    Eug,

    I too was appalled at the bad manners of my fellow Americans. Many of the early posts on this thread were slamming the subject and wondering how many pages would be "wasted" on the topic. If they hadn't jumbled up the thread with their moaning we wouldn't have had so many pages half filled with worthless commentary.

    We should be able to discuss differences in our training methods and breeding selection criteria without resorting to insults. I think many American Lab lovers lack an understanding of the history of the breed and are unable to appreciate the ways in which our trials (and therefore our dogs and training methods) differ from one another. It is sad that ignorance is so pervasive in our country, but it appears to be a fact based on the recent elections.

    Regarding the subject of humor, your jab was the only one at which I laughed out loud! It wouldn't be funny if it weren't TRUE! I value good canine manners and my own fitness. Maybe I'm just skinny enough to see the truth in your humor.

    Regards and Support from across the pond.

    Swack
    Jeff Swackhamer

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •