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Thread: FC/AFC Chocolate Labs?????

  1. #31
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    The theory is this; With all the generations of selective breeding It's hard to find an FT caliber Black, It's harder to find a an FT caliber Yellow, it's near impossible to find a FT caliber chocolate. So if your looking for FT caliber your best bet is to go with black, even then you got to get lucky. Still every once in awhile someone wins the Power-ball-Lotto and get an excellent animal, despite or perhaps in-spite of color, those animals get bred, bred to produce FT caliber pups, which means most likely to a black, which gives you more black, goodbye chocolate .
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  2. #32
    Senior Member obx4me's Avatar
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    So if a top FC bitch throws a litter of all 3 colors. Do people believe the black pups have a better chance at being a FC than the yellows or chocs from the same litter? I'd have a hard time buying into that!

    I can appreciate that the (a) choc is recessive so less number of chocs means less likely to be a FC (b) gene pool for choc is not as strong as some blacks due to breeding programs ...


    I like chocolates regardless.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Rnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    This thread has me thinking not to hijack but why are there so few chocolates? Is there a good reason are just a qua incidence?

    It's all about numbers:

    The first Labrador was registered with the AKC in 1917

    The first American bred Chocolate Lab was registered in 1940 "Kennoway's Fudge"

    However the Chocolate gene can be traced back to England 1885 "Bucceleuch Avon" Chocolate factored black.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Rnd's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=obx4me;1041840]So if a top FC bitch throws a litter of all 3 colors. Do people believe the black pups have a better chance at being a FC than the yellows or chocs from the same litter? "



    The vast majority of Field Trialers would yes.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Golden Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    The theory is this; With all the generations of selective breeding It's hard to find an FT caliber Black, It's harder to find a an FT caliber Yellow, it's near impossible to find a FT caliber chocolate. So if your looking for FT caliber your best bet is to go with black, even then you got to get lucky. Still every once in awhile someone wins the Power-ball-Lotto and get an excellent animal, despite or perhaps in-spite of color, those animals get bred, bred to produce FT caliber pups, which means most likely to a black, which gives you more black, goodbye chocolate .
    I don't totally buy into your theory.... I understand more black dogs will be running in trials do to the percentage of black dogs verus other colors. But by percentage there are not as many male FC choclates as there are FC blacks. In therory the percentage should be a lot closer.
    So back to the question BY PERCENTAGE WHY ARE THERE MORE BLACK MALE FC'S THEN CHOCOLATE MALES????????
    If someone has data on this or a better theory please share it.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Golden Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnd View Post
    It's all about numbers:

    The first Labrador was registered with the AKC in 1917

    The first American bred Chocolate Lab was registered in 1940 "Kennoway's Fudge"

    However the Chocolate gene can be traced back to England 1885 "Bucceleuch Avon" Chocolate factored black.
    Correct it is all about the numbers.
    So if 1,000 black males are running trials and 100 are FC's that would =10%
    If 100 chocolate males are running trials and 1 is an FC that would=1%
    Why is there such a difference in the percentage??
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnd View Post
    The vast majority of Field Trialers would yes.
    Is that so? Hmmn.

  8. #38
    Senior Member obx4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Boy View Post
    Correct it is all about the numbers.
    So if 1,000 black males are running trials and 100 are FC's that would =10%
    If 100 chocolate males are running trials and 1 is an FC that would=1%
    Why is there such a difference in the percentage??
    I think part of that answer is:

    (b) The overall gene pool for choc is not as strong as some blacks due to breeding programs ...


    I like chocolates regardless.
    "EIC clear or carrier means your dog is not affected and will not show EIC symptoms."

  9. #39
    Senior Member Golden Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obx4me View Post
    I think part of that answer is:

    (b) The overall gene pool for choc is not as strong as some blacks due to breeding programs ...


    I like chocolates regardless.
    How do we explan Chococlates from Black FC parents excellent breedings that don't make it then?
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  10. #40
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    In my 40+ years of field trial awareness there have been a handful of prepotent sires and we know that those dogs will continue to influence the breed long after they are no longer producing through their offspring. To my knowledge only one of that handful of studs produced chocolate offspring.

    The most successful chocolate male in the modern era of field trials was NFC Rascal who was the byproduct of a black to black breeding. The sire Ripin Blue Thunder, was know to produce chocolate but the dam, Belle Star's Emmy Lou had not been bred. She had some Scottish bench dogs in her background but I do not recall anyone strongly expecting chocolate so when two chocolate males appeared it was somewhat of a surprise. I know this because I knew both dogs and their owners were personal friends.

    There are probably more competitive yellows in the past 15 years than during any time in my tenure. Why, because more of that core sire base produced yellow.

    I think that there is much less color prejudice than there was 20-30 years ago. Most serious field trailers want, first and foremost, a nationally competitive dog and the breedings likely to produce that dog rarely, very rarely, have chocolate puppies.

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