So what would you do? FF v Non FF

[Colonel Blimp]

Eug, have you done any research into Michael Elis's dog training videos? He uses a reward based method for teaching all sorts of dogs..

Steve S I wouldn't call it research, but I'm aware of his work and studied a lot of the videos.

Swampbilly posted

fully understand the attributes that FF brings to the table, but if it's unlawful to do it, I'd make Operant Conditioning my best friend.

Don't forget that OC governs the use of the e-collar too, and every other training aid or method; but you're right, the more you learn about OC the better will be your powers of observation and analysis. However to answer your other question, even when I had the lawful opportunity to use an e collar I didn't take it. I was travelling a road from being an old time hard handed trainer towards something better and didn't perceive the collar as an advancement for me.

Eug

[Swampbilly]

Don't forget that OC governs the use of the e-collar too, and every other training aid or method; but you're right, the more you learn about OC the better will be your powers of observation and analysis.

However to answer your other question, even when I had the lawful opportunity to use an e collar I didn't take it. I was travelling a road from being an old time hard handed trainer towards something better and didn't perceive the collar as an advancement for me.

Eug

Nuthin' in the world wrong with that. If anything like some of us over here,..you may have more time than money ..

Do know this-
BonMallari and his brother has been successfully training, (collar-less), for some time now.

[BonMallari]

Nuthin' in the world wrong with that. If anything like some of us over here,..you may have more time than money ..

Do know this-
BonMallari and his brother has been successfully training, (collar-less), for some time now.

Clint Mallari has been successfully training without a collar since the 70's ( he took a twenty year hiatus to go to med school and have a family) I am nothing more than a good student,good birdboy, and back up clipboard carrier...

[Swampbilly]

Clint Mallari has been successfully training without a collar since the 70's ( he took a twenty year hiatus to go to med school and have a family) I am nothing more than a good student,good birdboy, and back up clipboard carrier...

Whad' I do,.. give ya' too much credit? LoL..
..Well if you ever get in a bind and need a decent CBC 'Bon, just lemme' know..That's Clip Board Carrier case you didn't know. If I'm not qualified for that just lemme' carry the pencils

[crackerd]

I am nothing more than a good student,good birdboy, and back up clipboard carrier...

bon, you been reading that propaganda again? Get the feeling McElroy would make a great FT handler - game manager being what's most called for in "our" games...

MG

[BonMallari]

Whad' I do,.. give ya' too much credit? LoL..
..Well if you ever get in a bind and need a decent CBC 'Bon, just lemme' know..That's Clip Board Carrier case you didn't know. If I'm not qualified for that just lemme' carry the pencils

Yup, I have no accomplishments in the FT world, but I have been fortunate enough to be around those that do, and have absorbed a lot of info..I understand my brother's methods more now than when I was younger and trying to implement them..in doing so I am now able to take one of his dogs and know what needs to be worked on what doesnt need to be messed with..will be much more hands on with the pup we plan on getting next spring,since I found the breeding

[EdA]

Clint Mallari has been successfully training without a collar since the 70's (...

When, as a single graduate student, he was swift of foot and a strong swimmer with the time to be one the all-time great "tennis shoe trainers". I suspect that the limits of time and erosion of physical attributes have necessitated some adjustments to the 70s style training that he once employed...

[BonMallari]

When, as a single graduate student, he was swift of foot and a strong swimmer with the time to be one the all-time great "tennis shoe trainers". I suspect that the limits of time and erosion of physical attributes have necessitated some adjustments to the 70s style training that he once employed...

He is in great shape for a guy his age, he still jogs at least 3 days a week, and has done the P90X workout cycle TWICE...its only the limits of time that hamper him nowadays..He has been known to get up before daylight and run a blind and return home in time to take the boys to school and then go to the clinic...being the boss has its privileges

[Julie R.]

As a final shot I'd like to propose a thought experiment to my “FF” chums in N America. Imagine you live in a country where the collar is unlawful, but there is a wealth of non FF knowledge that's growing every day. The raw material (ie the dogs) available is of high quality and well suited to your needs. Additionally you've had some bloody cruel luck with your dogs this season and need to have three Pups (and maybe even a trained dog as a gap filler) in the kennels PDQ. That's right where I am.

What would you do?

Eug

Been mulling over this question in my mind and keep thinking it belongs on POTUS....
In your shoes Eug, there wouldn't be any reason to change the training program. For those of us who subscribe to the Carr-based system of force fetch (conditioned retrieve) and collar conditioning, we'd likely train as we've done before, just minus a few tools. Lots more rope, maybe a few of us (myself included) would get that knee surgery we need to be able to keep up with our dogs afield to administer timely corrections. Training without the ecollar and without the foundation of FF would probably take me a whole lot longer to get the results I wanted, but probably still faster than trying to learn an entirely different sequential method.

Being open minded to different training programs isn't the same as changing your mind that one is superior to another, no matter how you package your "what if" scenarios. What if I awoke in the UK and Obama was running for Prime Minister? Would I vote for him?

[Becky Mills]

What if I awoke in the UK and Obama was running for Prime Minister? Would I vote for him?

Oh, but Julie, you being you I'm quite sure you'd approach the idea with an open mind.
ROTFL regards.