The first pro that I worked for trained with little use of the collar. So I guess i would train like we did when I worked for him. He had a truck load of MH but with the way test are now days I am not sure how his dogs would do. I am thankful I worked for such a pro because it has allowed me to train many dogs that would be washed out. So I guess I see it both ways. Their are some very great trainers that have washed alot of nice dogs because they did not fit saids program. Adapt and train. Now if I lived in a Country that didn't allow me to train and use the collar I would be looking for a different place to hang my hat.