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Thread: Armature mistakes with regards to puppy marking

  1. #1
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Default Amateur mistakes with regards to puppy marking

    I would be interested in what you Pro/experienced folks believe are some of the common mistakes you see with amateurs as far as them setting up puppy marks, and their expectations of puppy's performance.

    Specifically:

    1. Big stupid hunts

    2. Enforcement of steadiness at the line

    3. Breakdown and not making AOF.


    4. Style

    5. The armatures BB"s responsibility with regards to help.

    I am talking about the dog who is in the yard, maybe in the middle of FF, orrr, the dog that is just coming out of the yard (puppy 8 -13 months)

    Thanks in advance

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 12-07-2012 at 11:17 AM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  2. #2
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Gooser, here's a few things I see happen with first time trainers with pups

    Trying to advance a young dog too fast, putting the dog in over its abilities
    Setting longer marks than is necessary for building the mechanics of marking
    Marking in too thick a cover
    Handler jumping in and assisting when the BB should do that
    Too much verbal assistance and/or encouragement
    Marks being thrown back instead of flat or slightly inward
    Not enough patience before calling for help, not letting the dog work it out
    Not maintaining an OB standard at the line, not building a routine with the dog coming to the line
    Throwing too many marks in each session
    Getting discouraged easily, not enjoying the learning process with the young dog

    As for BB's I have some general guidelines for my help

    Be ready to go when I leave the holding blind
    Have a second bird ready in case I want them to double pump a second bird
    Don't become a spectator. Keep an eye on me most of the time ready to help if I call for it.
    Good consistant visible throw
    When I call for help stay stationary. Keep the dog in the area with verbal help. Let the dog hunt and figure it out.
    Keep the station clean and birds/bumpers in the bag so the pup can't get rewarded in the station
    Remain silent except when I signal for help
    Never yell or get harsh with the pup, especially around the holding blind

    Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  3. #3
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Gooser, here's a few things I see happen with first time trainers with pups

    Trying to advance a young dog too fast, putting the dog in over its abilities
    Setting longer marks than is necessary for building the mechanics of marking
    Marking in too thick a cover
    Handler jumping in and assisting when the BB should do that
    Too much verbal assistance and/or encouragement
    Marks being thrown back instead of flat or slightly inward
    Not enough patience before calling for help, not letting the dog work it out
    Not maintaining an OB standard at the line, not building a routine with the dog coming to the line
    Throwing too many marks in each session
    Getting discouraged easily, not enjoying the learning process with the young dog

    As for BB's I have some general guidelines for my help

    Be ready to go when I leave the holding blind
    Have a second bird ready in case I want them to double pump a second bird
    Don't become a spectator. Keep an eye on me most of the time ready to help if I call for it.
    Good consistant visible throw
    When I call for help stay stationary. Keep the dog in the area with verbal help. Let the dog hunt and figure it out.
    Keep the station clean and birds/bumpers in the bag so the pup can't get rewarded in the station
    Remain silent except when I signal for help
    Never yell or get harsh with the pup, especially around the holding blind

    Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

    /Paul
    Great advise. I'm working with my five month old as we speak need to keep this in mind. We definately have a tendancy to show off with longer - harder marks than necessary.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Codatango's Avatar
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    Also on land marks, there are changes in type of cover that put a puppy off line. Then they might hold that new line and no longer be headed towards the mark.

    It's much easier to see what the factors are when water is involved than land. You rarely know WHAT it is out there on land that will interfere with a pup getting close enough to the AOF. Even if you walk the line.

    This is what I discovered this time around with my pup who is now a year old.
    I'm seeing that it takes WAY more experience with a lot of dogs to see the potential problems/factors with land marks. Of course, some pups will plow through anything, some need to learn that it is ok to do so!

    Debbie Tandoc

  5. #5
    Senior Member John Lash's Avatar
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    Not a pro, but keep the marks relatively short, like 50 to 80 yards so the pup is actually marking the fall, not running to the gun and turning left or right to get the mark.

    Only throw flat throws.

    Have the BB throw big marks far away from the gun station, for the same as above.

    Use white bumpers so the dog is marking with his eyes.

    Do widely separated singles off multiple throwers.

    If the dog is marking well do widely separated doubles occasionally. Marking well not stumbling around till they find the mark.

    If the dog is marking well introduce retired guns, easy ones. A mark where all they have to do is get out there and they'll see it. Open field, mark at the edge or end, near a landmark like a tree or bush run as a single. Come back and add another shorter mark as a go bird and do the retired again, retiring this time. Use common sense, I think if introduced early it's not as big a deal as waiting till they're older.

    I did a lot of easy sight blinds with my last pup and I really think he benefitted from them. White bumper relatively short, no cover, maybe even down a dirt road. Bring the dog out of the truck, "where is it, where is it?" Get him to see it and send him. Make it progressively longer and not quite as visible. As they advance you can put several out, widely spaced and make some very visible, some not so visible. You can put bumpers up on a mound and they can see them from far away. I really think it helped him, he'd come out of the truck intent on seeing something.

    Hope this helps.
    John Lash

    "If you run Field Trials, you learn to swallow your disappointment quickly."

    "Field trials are not a game for good dogs. They're for great dogs with great training." E. Graham

  6. #6
    Senior Member Old School Labs's Avatar
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    Do a few of those remarks from Paul look dangerously familiar Mike. We told you don't get excited just because Flinch does not pin every mark. They need to learn to hunt and is the BB's job to help keep them in AOF, if they leave it. Let her have some fun, she is just a baby at this time, you can put the hammer down later.

    See you Saturday, party on Garth.........
    Mark

    Rebelstar's Two Toes Tappin' *** MH "Casey"
    Trumarc's Thrilla in Manilla *** "Laila"

    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    we grow old because we stop playing.
    Never Be The First To Get Old!!!!!

  7. #7
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Paul
    "have a bird ready in case you need a double pump."
    Please explain the circumstance.

    thank you to those that have taken the time to respond.
    I am reading.

    Also my phone doesn't know how to spell
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  8. #8
    Senior Member Old School Labs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Paul
    "have a bird ready in case you need a double pump."
    Please explain the circumstance.

    thank you to those that have taken the time to respond.
    I am reading.

    Also my phone doesn't know how to spell
    Phone my arse.....
    Mark

    Rebelstar's Two Toes Tappin' *** MH "Casey"
    Trumarc's Thrilla in Manilla *** "Laila"

    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    we grow old because we stop playing.
    Never Be The First To Get Old!!!!!

  9. #9
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    More to the question than Flinch.

    weekday training,and trying to consider different areas that need improvement, in different situations and dogs.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  10. #10
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Paul
    "have a bird ready in case you need a double pump."
    Please explain the circumstance.

    thank you to those that have taken the time to respond.
    I am reading.

    Also my phone doesn't know how to spell
    When stretching the young dogs out if they are breaking down short sometimes i'll signal the BB to "hey hey" the dog and throw the second bird to keep the momentum up and help the dog get used to running longer. Not always needed but good to have around.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

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