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Thread: Armature mistakes with regards to puppy marking

  1. #11
    Senior Member Jay-Bird's Avatar
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    Great thread,
    I hope the answers keep coming. I have a 6mth right now and this is great info. I do the majority of my work alone so keeping this in mind will help..

    I also am interested in what a double pump is...

  2. #12
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    1)Think 90*
    - throws 90* from gun
    - multiple marks at 90* to each other
    - 90* water entries, cover entries,ditch crossings.....
    2)Think straight not length
    3) Know when to quit, end on high note, that extra mark will usually get you trouble

    Tim
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

  3. #13
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Gooser, here's a few things I see happen with first time trainers with pups

    Trying to advance a young dog too fast, putting the dog in over its abilities
    Setting longer marks than is necessary for building the mechanics of marking
    Marking in too thick a cover
    Handler jumping in and assisting when the BB should do that
    Too much verbal assistance and/or encouragement
    Marks being thrown back instead of flat or slightly inward
    Not enough patience before calling for help, not letting the dog work it out
    Not maintaining an OB standard at the line, not building a routine with the dog coming to the line
    Throwing too many marks in each session
    Getting discouraged easily, not enjoying the learning process with the young dog

    As for BB's I have some general guidelines for my help

    Be ready to go when I leave the holding blind
    Have a second bird ready in case I want them to double pump a second bird
    Don't become a spectator. Keep an eye on me most of the time ready to help if I call for it.
    Good consistant visible throw
    When I call for help stay stationary. Keep the dog in the area with verbal help. Let the dog hunt and figure it out.
    Keep the station clean and birds/bumpers in the bag so the pup can't get rewarded in the station
    Remain silent except when I signal for help
    Never yell or get harsh with the pup, especially around the holding blind

    Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

    /Paul

    If dog(puppy) is on wrong side of gun.... Is THAT a determiner for help?

    If dog breaks down early or Hunts early,, out of AOF,, is that an automatic determiner for help?

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  4. #14
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Gooser, here's a few things I see happen with first time trainers with pups

    Trying to advance a young dog too fast, putting the dog in over its abilities
    Setting longer marks than is necessary for building the mechanics of marking
    Marking in too thick a cover
    Handler jumping in and assisting when the BB should do that
    Too much verbal assistance and/or encouragement
    Marks being thrown back instead of flat or slightly inward
    Not enough patience before calling for help, not letting the dog work it out
    Not maintaining an OB standard at the line, not building a routine with the dog coming to the line
    Throwing too many marks in each session
    Getting discouraged easily, not enjoying the learning process with the young dog

    As for BB's I have some general guidelines for my help

    Be ready to go when I leave the holding blind
    Have a second bird ready in case I want them to double pump a second bird
    Don't become a spectator. Keep an eye on me most of the time ready to help if I call for it.
    Good consistant visible throw
    When I call for help stay stationary. Keep the dog in the area with verbal help. Let the dog hunt and figure it out.
    Keep the station clean and birds/bumpers in the bag so the pup can't get rewarded in the station
    Remain silent except when I signal for help
    Never yell or get harsh with the pup, especially around the holding blind

    Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

    /Paul
    So I understand......

    Dog should be working from a distance where it learns to associate the BB with a bird,, and the dog should associate a shot with a throw,, BEFOR starting to add distance..
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  5. #15
    Senior Member Jerry S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    If dog(puppy) is on wrong side of gun.... Is THAT a determiner for help?

    If dog breaks down early or Hunts early,, out of AOF,, is that an automatic determiner for help?

    Gooser
    A young dog should never be behind the gun. The BB should be looking at the handler and when the dog needs help the handler should place his arm up signaling another throw. Timing is crucial.
    If the dog breaks down early and keeps progressing toward the fall, let him hunt. If he breaks down and works an area or worse yet, starts returning to the handler the BB better help him out and quickly.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Dos Patos's Avatar
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    Now this is a great thread!
    FC AFC Slider/Junie

  7. #17
    Senior Member Jim Scarborough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watchm View Post
    A young dog should never be behind the gun. The BB should be looking at the handler and when the dog needs help the handler should place his arm up signaling another throw. Timing is crucial.

    I agree with Watchm. A young pup should never be behind the gun, so our bird boys are instructed to stand and jester with their arm and face the bird when the pup tries to go backside. This assumes a young dog still in basics and a stand-out gun.
    Blind Lake Labradors

  8. #18
    Senior Member Golden Boy's Avatar
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    The biggest mistake I see with first time trainers and puppies in training groups. Are that the trainer is trying to win training day. Thier not actually training the pup.
    Cold Creek Gundogs
    The more I'm on the internet the more I love my dogs.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
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    Fire drills and half way marks are good for this too. With fire drills(usually early marking pups), keep a constant flow of bumpers and "hey-hey's" flying until the pup gets to his marking comfort distance. The half-way mark is thrown as the pup is half way on a slightly longer mark than its comfortable with. This can progress to waiting for the signs that a breakdown might occur, like slowing or looking like a hunt might start. Both are really good drills for getting them to use thier eyes and start streching them out. Both of these drills are also good for dogs with lackluster drive to mark and drive to the area of fall.
    Kendall Layne

    HR(2xHRCH) Ashland's Big Black Ruby to Go SH
    Dorie's Lady of the Lake(1K bird club)

    Never play leap frog with a unicorn.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Scott R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Boy View Post
    The biggest mistake I see with first time trainers and puppies in training groups. Are that the trainer is trying to win training day. Thier not actually training the pup.
    Funny you mention this. I just went to my first group training day with some friends I met at a hunt test. It seemed to me that everyone was so busy trying to make their dog look good that, with the exception of some folks with REALLY young dogs, no one was doing any training. I think I was one of a few who actually got a correction in...and yeah I set him up for it because I know his weaknesses.

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