Armature mistakes with regards to puppy marking

[Jay-Bird]

Great thread,
I hope the answers keep coming. I have a 6mth right now and this is great info. I do the majority of my work alone so keeping this in mind will help..

I also am interested in what a double pump is...

[Tim Carrion]

1)Think 90*
- throws 90* from gun
- multiple marks at 90* to each other
- 90* water entries, cover entries,ditch crossings.....
2)Think straight not length
3) Know when to quit, end on high note, that extra mark will usually get you trouble

Tim

[MooseGooser]

Gooser, here's a few things I see happen with first time trainers with pups

Trying to advance a young dog too fast, putting the dog in over its abilities
Setting longer marks than is necessary for building the mechanics of marking
Marking in too thick a cover
Handler jumping in and assisting when the BB should do that
Too much verbal assistance and/or encouragement
Marks being thrown back instead of flat or slightly inward
Not enough patience before calling for help, not letting the dog work it out
Not maintaining an OB standard at the line, not building a routine with the dog coming to the line
Throwing too many marks in each session
Getting discouraged easily, not enjoying the learning process with the young dog

As for BB's I have some general guidelines for my help

Be ready to go when I leave the holding blind
Have a second bird ready in case I want them to double pump a second bird
Don't become a spectator. Keep an eye on me most of the time ready to help if I call for it.
Good consistant visible throw
When I call for help stay stationary. Keep the dog in the area with verbal help. Let the dog hunt and figure it out.
Keep the station clean and birds/bumpers in the bag so the pup can't get rewarded in the station
Remain silent except when I signal for help
Never yell or get harsh with the pup, especially around the holding blind

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

/Paul

If dog(puppy) is on wrong side of gun.... Is THAT a determiner for help?

If dog breaks down early or Hunts early,, out of AOF,, is that an automatic determiner for help?

Gooser

[MooseGooser]

Gooser, here's a few things I see happen with first time trainers with pups

Trying to advance a young dog too fast, putting the dog in over its abilities
Setting longer marks than is necessary for building the mechanics of marking
Marking in too thick a cover
Handler jumping in and assisting when the BB should do that
Too much verbal assistance and/or encouragement
Marks being thrown back instead of flat or slightly inward
Not enough patience before calling for help, not letting the dog work it out
Not maintaining an OB standard at the line, not building a routine with the dog coming to the line
Throwing too many marks in each session
Getting discouraged easily, not enjoying the learning process with the young dog

As for BB's I have some general guidelines for my help

Be ready to go when I leave the holding blind
Have a second bird ready in case I want them to double pump a second bird
Don't become a spectator. Keep an eye on me most of the time ready to help if I call for it.
Good consistant visible throw
When I call for help stay stationary. Keep the dog in the area with verbal help. Let the dog hunt and figure it out.
Keep the station clean and birds/bumpers in the bag so the pup can't get rewarded in the station
Remain silent except when I signal for help
Never yell or get harsh with the pup, especially around the holding blind

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

/Paul

So I understand......

Dog should be working from a distance where it learns to associate the BB with a bird,, and the dog should associate a shot with a throw,, BEFOR starting to add distance..

[Jerry S.]

If dog(puppy) is on wrong side of gun.... Is THAT a determiner for help?

If dog breaks down early or Hunts early,, out of AOF,, is that an automatic determiner for help?

Gooser

A young dog should never be behind the gun. The BB should be looking at the handler and when the dog needs help the handler should place his arm up signaling another throw. Timing is crucial.
If the dog breaks down early and keeps progressing toward the fall, let him hunt. If he breaks down and works an area or worse yet, starts returning to the handler the BB better help him out and quickly.

[Dos Patos]

Now this is a great thread!

[Jim Scarborough]

A young dog should never be behind the gun. The BB should be looking at the handler and when the dog needs help the handler should place his arm up signaling another throw. Timing is crucial.

I agree with Watchm. A young pup should never be behind the gun, so our bird boys are instructed to stand and jester with their arm and face the bird when the pup tries to go backside. This assumes a young dog still in basics and a stand-out gun.

[Golden Boy]

The biggest mistake I see with first time trainers and puppies in training groups. Are that the trainer is trying to win training day. Thier not actually training the pup.

[Duckquilizer]

Fire drills and half way marks are good for this too. With fire drills(usually early marking pups), keep a constant flow of bumpers and "hey-hey's" flying until the pup gets to his marking comfort distance. The half-way mark is thrown as the pup is half way on a slightly longer mark than its comfortable with. This can progress to waiting for the signs that a breakdown might occur, like slowing or looking like a hunt might start. Both are really good drills for getting them to use thier eyes and start streching them out. Both of these drills are also good for dogs with lackluster drive to mark and drive to the area of fall.

[Scott R.]

The biggest mistake I see with first time trainers and puppies in training groups. Are that the trainer is trying to win training day. Thier not actually training the pup.

Funny you mention this. I just went to my first group training day with some friends I met at a hunt test. It seemed to me that everyone was so busy trying to make their dog look good that, with the exception of some folks with REALLY young dogs, no one was doing any training. I think I was one of a few who actually got a correction in...and yeah I set him up for it because I know his weaknesses.