Armature mistakes with regards to puppy marking

[Gun_Dog2002]

Kwick did make a good point for my personal circumstance.

Weekend group is really positive. There are people there to throw. There are people there that have a consistent way that all agree as to when and how to help if dog needs help on mark..

Most assuredly, when it our turn to run, I will be instructed to alter the set up of the day somehow because of puppys inexperience. Most of the time it will involve moving closer, or past a shorter gun to take that gun out of the picture. I have always run the marks of a triple a singles.. The marks are Always WAY more challenging than what I set up during the week...

During the week, I train mostly by myself. I use remote wingers. I have noticed the pup has a hard time seeing the bumper come out of the winger. She ususally sees it, at the top of the arc,, but Often, the bounce when it hits the ground... It has been a struggle to get her to be able to handel winger thrown bumpers..

This past week,, I had a fantastic opportunity to have someone join in and actually throw marks for her during my week day training..
I chose the distances that I felt the pup was comfortable with when I use wingers.. I could not believe the difference the real person throwing a mark made. She did very well.

She HAS to learn to handel WINGER thrown marks.... Its just the way it is. I hang a white shirt on the winger... The wingers release has a way to incorporate a shot as the winger is activated,,, But I dont think the dog associates the winger and white shirt, the same way she associates the real BB..
I have paid attention and asked myself if the throw from the winger is similar in nature as far a distance and hight of arc ect,, and I do believe I have the winger set to be very similar.

Gooser

Exactly why I hate using wingers for young dogs. BB are really helpful for young dogs. If you absolutely have nobody there to throw then you have to keep it even more simple. Shorter grass, less factors and it may help to salt the ground with a few bumpers/birds to really help draw the dog in. If the dog is handling birds well, better to use birds to salt the area

/Paul

[KwickLabs]

She HAS to learn to handel WINGER thrown marks.... Its just the way it is. I hang a white shirt on the winger... The wingers release has a way to incorporate a shot as the winger is activated,,, But I dont think the dog associates the winger and white shirt, the same way she associates the real BB..

I have paid attention and asked myself if the throw from the winger is similar in nature as far a distance and height of arc, ect,, and I do believe I have the winger set to be very similar.

With hand thrown marks the dog cues not only off the gun, but the motion of the thrower. With a winger the sound of a shot arrives long after the mark is in the air (speed of light vs. sound). Advanced noise makers (duck quacking or horn) help to focus the dog some. The longer the mark the greater the separation between "seeing and hearing" and shots. My young dogs have ALWAYS marked better with hand thrown marks. That's why many of my marking setups are "stand alones".

On a side note, with long marks and shooting at the top of the arc, the dog often will not hear the sound before the fall is on the ground. Which means keying off a real thrower's motion is often critical. Wingers do not provide that "early motion".

I use wingers for close in hunt test setups (100 yards or less) where the focus is more on "routines" rather than marking. In addition (at short distances), the sound of the winger is very close to the initial release of the mark. I use to think that my dogs "needed" to mark off wingers, but moving on to "stand alones" proved more effective in developing marking skills in the long run (pun intended). Plus, the "helper" (if needed) is exactly on the same page as the handler.