The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 5 of 19 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 187

Thread: Michigan........

  1. #41
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,194

    Default

    Let approach this from another way. Hostess can't compete with the bakers that have no problem paying the market wage, so why would the workers want to take less so that they can keep their salaries and compete. If Hostess can't pay market and compete, go to work for another baker who can as oppose to accepting much less

  2. #42
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post



    There is an abundance of evidence to the contrary, but unfortunately most here are more interested in "winning the argument" than in the facts.

    JS
    I guess it just depands on where one comes from. Unions around here are scorned because our workers do just fine without them, from working conditions to wages. I don't know of any businesses that would fire a productive worker and not pay what they are worth and if the emplyee is unghappy, there is plenty of work elsewhere. On the other hand, businesses should be able to fire unproductive workers without having to deal with a union. Life is not fair or perfect but our system of Right To Work has been a good policy for us. Just look at the amount of business that want to relocate to RTW states.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  3. #43
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Berlin, WI
    Posts
    10,568

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    Let approach this from another way. Hostess can't compete with the bakers that have no problem paying the market wage, so why would the workers want to take less so that they can keep their salaries and compete. If Hostess can't pay market and compete, go to work for another baker who can as oppose to accepting much less
    Is this the same opinion you have of GM, or is that somehow different?
    Stan b & Elvis

  4. #44
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by roseberry View Post
    food for thought.....if the folks who make the "better wage" are producing the product you are selling, it will obviously cost more. as a result your competitor will then make it in china much less expensively.

    you wont sell jack doo doo and the domestic factory with the "better wage" will close. but the workers will not notice their factory closed until their paychecks are not direct deposited since they are out front at the plant gates marching with signs, on strike, not working, not producing and keeping scabs out.

    did i miss anything in my economis analysis above?
    You also left out the part where the Union dues is sent to promote Political hacks (politicians) that will write laws giving the unions more power so that they can continue to steal from the company and tax payers and ensure that the politician (hack) gets relected.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  5. #45
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,194

    Default

    This is not opinion...it is fact....difference workers had reason to sweat it out...their life savings was invested with GM

  6. #46
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Coastal Bend of Texas
    Posts
    2,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    I didn't think so, and no if you don't understand it by now, you never will.
    Don't be a jackass. I am and have always been a one man operation. No payroll, just me and my wife. So, if you want folks like me to have an idea of about what you are referencing, you need to make things a bit more clear.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

    www.HughLieck.photoshelter.com

  7. #47
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Coastal Bend of Texas
    Posts
    2,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post

    Real Americans Buy American regards,

    JS
    Sad to say that they will mostly be sitting in empty houses in the dark. It is very difficult to find Made in America these days even if you are willing to pay more.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

    www.HughLieck.photoshelter.com

  8. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SW Minnesota
    Posts
    1,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Don't be a jackass. I am and have always been a one man operation. No payroll, just me and my wife. So, if you want folks like me to have an idea of about what you are referencing, you need to make things a bit more clear.
    Sorry, I didn't know it was a serious question. With a union contract and a salary schedule in place the manager probably wouldn't be able to give an individual employee that pay raise (the contract was already negotiated). I work at a non-union company and we also you a pay schedule for which we would not deviate from, although we could. Salary schedules are far from perfect but in some cases they work very well.

  9. #49
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,378

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Sad to say that they will mostly be sitting in empty houses in the dark. It is very difficult to find Made in America these days even if you are willing to pay more.
    Sad to say you are correct. That was a bumper sticker on my car 40 years ago. People laughed at us when we said there would be no jobs someday. Especially the young kids.

    When Nike moved their shops out, we said, "don't buy them". The kids smirked and said, "kiss my azz ... they're cool shoes".

    And so it went. The rest of the shoe companies watched and followed suit. Even New Balance is gone now. I still buy them cause they held out the longest.

    Those kids are 50 years old now.

    What's amazing is folks still want to take up that same argument.

    Oh well. I've got mine ... to Hell with it.

    JS
    Last edited by JS; 12-07-2012 at 01:25 PM.
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ... at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  10. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Shelbyville, Tn
    Posts
    1,450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    This is the kind of crap that ruins these conversations and prevents a good exchange of ideas. If you have some inside knowledge then I apologize but I'm willing to bet you don't.

    I worked for Wonder/Hostess as a route salesman/driver way back when it was Continental Baking Co. That was in the 1960s and admittedly, my knowledge is dated but I have seen so much misinformation posted about this situation it is ridiculous. I can tell you that the baking business, like a lot of the food business started on this slide as far back as then with the competition for private labels. They sold the bread at a loss just to get the best spot on the shelf and recouped it from the salesmen's commission. Just one of MANY concessions made over the years. I liked the job but saw the writing on the wall way back then.

    Pretending you have the knowledge to pass judgement in a situation like this is like making a judgement on someone else's divorce. Probably a lot you don't know.

    JS
    Well, you got one thing correct. You are right, I don't have any inside knowlege. I just take a little time to listen to the news, Fox, MSNBC, CNN business to mention a few. Fact, Hostess did have contracts signed by all the other unions. Fact THEY DID NOT TAKE BANKRUPSEY, THEY JUST QUIT. Fact, news reported speculation that Hostess name and equipment would be bought and twinkies would again be made. No inside information just the news.

    PS
    I love your line about buying American. A friend of mine Jack Kelton(he doesn't mund my using his name), worked initially for Firestone and eventually Bridgestone-Firestone for 35 years and was a member of the United Steel-Workers(I always why not United Rubber-Workers. When he retired, he was recognized by the union as a loyal member of the union, with a plaque showing the union's appreciaation for his membership. When he took the plaque home to show his wife, she looked on the back where emblazened were the words "MADE IN CHINA". Of course on the front were the words, "presented by the united Steel-Workers. She was furious, and took the plaque back to the union to express her anger at the union not buying American. Their response was that they were spending union members' money and had to find the best deal possible. She returned the plaque. This story reminds me of the song "Look For The Union Label", Evidently, that only applies to non-union people. You can form your own opinion as to the hypocracy here.

    As to passing judgement, none was passed. I just reported the news. I will admit that hypocracy is in fact a judgement but I left that for you to form your own opinion.
    Last edited by caryalsobrook; 12-07-2012 at 02:02 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •