The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 9 of 19 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 187

Thread: Michigan........

  1. #81
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Oakdale,ct.
    Posts
    2,879

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but Hostess has not taken bankruptsy. They have simply decided to cease operations and sell the assets. No creditors have failed to be paid. If they have taken bankruptsy, then kindly tell me what chapter of bankruptsy they have taken.
    chapter 11.......



    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/hoste...ry?id=17775866

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

    http://www.theadvertiser.com/article...king-up-pieces

    http://www.examiner.com/article/host...-workers-angry


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AK15J20121122
    Last edited by paul young; 12-10-2012 at 09:02 AM.
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  2. #82
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Pac NW
    Posts
    4,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    I missed the part were the hourly employees were being given bonuses in the 100k range.
    This is what took place just prior to management telling their employees they needed to take recessions.

    Quality management, the union is obviously to blame.......folly.
    I guess you missed the part on one of these threads where I did not defend management. But even those who are bad managers have some value in a wind down . As for the employees, they could have pushed for an ESOP . I don't blame the union, they bluffed, & apparently lost.
    __________________________

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  3. #83
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    What a joke. First of all, Hostess had signed contracts with all the other unions of the company, but could not come to an agreement with the baker's union. Had they done so, HOSTESS UOLD STILL BE IN BUSINESS and would still be competing with it's competidors. Competition did not shut down Hostess. All the other unions of Hostess did not shut down Hostess. THE BAKER'S UNION DID.
    .....
    This above is the part of your post I was challenging when I said what I did:

    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    This is the kind of crap that ruins these conversations and prevents a good exchange of ideas. If you have some inside knowledge then I apologize but I'm willing to bet you don't.

    I worked for Wonder/Hostess as a route salesman/driver way back when it was Continental Baking Co. That was in the 1960s and admittedly, my knowledge is dated but I have seen so much misinformation posted about this situation it is ridiculous. I can tell you that the baking business, like a lot of the food business started on this slide as far back as then with the competition for private labels. They sold the bread at a loss just to get the best spot on the shelf and recouped it from the salesmen's commission. Just one of MANY concessions made over the years. I liked the job but saw the writing on the wall way back then.

    Pretending you have the knowledge to pass judgement in a situation like this is like making a judgement on someone else's divorce. Probably a lot you don't know.

    JS
    You do not have enough knowledge of the situation to make that statement. You do not know the whole story of what the issues were in this round of negotiations. Only a sketchy brief from a news source who got a sketchy brief from a carefully worded press release. Nor do you know anything of the history of the company/union relations or what concessions had taken place in previous negotiations.

    At least, I worked there many, many years ago and even I would not profess to know everything that led to the closure. But I CAN say that it has been coming for a long, long time. The cost of labor is only one part of the cost of doing business and to say the union caused Wonder/Hostess to shut down ... or that unions in general cause businesses to fail ... is an overstatement.

    Many businesses flourish with a union workforce and many non-union businesses fail without a union to blame.

    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Well, you got one thing correct. You are right, I don't have any inside knowlege. I just take a little time to listen to the news, Fox, MSNBC, CNN business to mention a few. Fact, Hostess did have contracts signed by all the other unions. Fact THEY DID NOT TAKE BANKRUPSEY, THEY JUST QUIT. Fact, news reported speculation that Hostess name and equipment would be bought and twinkies would again be made. No inside information just the news.

    .....
    JS
    Last edited by JS; 12-10-2012 at 10:23 AM.
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ...​ at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  4. #84
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Shelbyville, Tn
    Posts
    1,503

    Default

    I was wwrong. I don't know whether I heard an earlier version that later changed or just misunderstood. I did read the ABC article completely which was interesting. While short, it did show that such situations can be very complicated. The union striking was the largest but the only one not agreeing to a new contract. Evidently, the teamsters union disagreed with the union striking and what appeaars to me, accused the Baker's union of striking but not requesting all it's members to strike. However it expected the teamsters union to honor the strike. The company is privately owned and I guess they are can pay bonuses as they choose so long as bankruptcy judge agrees. I suspect only so long as enough assets are left to pay creditors. What a mess. Actually I would blame gov. rules and regulations for causing such a complicated problem. Just my thoughts.

  5. #85
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Oakdale,ct.
    Posts
    2,879

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    I was wwrong. I don't know whether I heard an earlier version that later changed or just misunderstood. I did read the ABC article completely which was interesting. While short, it did show that such situations can be very complicated. The union striking was the largest but the only one not agreeing to a new contract. Evidently, the teamsters union disagreed with the union striking and what appeaars to me, accused the Baker's union of striking but not requesting all it's members to strike. However it expected the teamsters union to honor the strike. The company is privately owned and I guess they are can pay bonuses as they choose so long as bankruptcy judge agrees. I suspect only so long as enough assets are left to pay creditors. What a mess. Actually I would blame gov. rules and regulations for causing such a complicated problem. Just my thoughts.
    It's a Helluva mess. In my opinion everyone involved shares some of the blame for it. I do think it's reprehensible that the court would allow nearly $2 million in bonuses to be distributed to senior management members at this time, but i'm equally sure it's legal......

    The misuse of pension funds makes me want to puke. If it could happen to them, it could happen to me.-Paul
    Last edited by paul young; 12-10-2012 at 12:09 PM. Reason: spelling
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Posts
    4,289

    Default

    Am I wrong in thinking today's unions are not the same as the one I was a member of in the 50's. While ours was a small shop, and we eventually voted it out...I do not recall any union of that time doing much more than just carrying a picket sign around the entrance of the building the business occupied. The NW Bell building on 5th and 3rd in Mpls comes to mind, where my wife was involved for a few years. But this type of activity would have been unheard of in that era, or at least in our region.

    UB
    Michigan Madness: Thousands Plan To Lay Siege On State Capitol On Tuesday Over Right-To-Work

    By: LaborUnionReport (Diary)


    On Tuesday, unions, left-wing radicals and their allies are planning to lay siege to Michigan’s state capitol on Tuesday to protest the state lawmakers’ move to give workers the right to work for unionized companies without being compelled to pay union fees or be fired.

    On a Facebook page dedicated to a “Day of Action” on Tuesday, as of Sunday night, over 2,400 2,500 activists have pledged to show up to protest. That number is expected to grow by Tuesday.

    In addition to unions vowing even bigger protests than last week, OccupyMichigan is also promoting the Day of Action.
    The Lansing Fire Department has posted a list of likely street closures.
    On Saturday, according to ABC News, more than 200 union activists attended a training for Tuesday.
    Between chants, cheers and applause, organizers warned those at the training to be prepared for insults and obstruction Tuesday in Lansing. The volunteers lined up on opposite sides of a long hall at UAW Local 600 in suburban Detroit and took turn turns portraying protesters and union critics.
    “Humanize the situation. Be clear with your intentions. Introduce yourself,” national labor activist Lisa Fithian, of Austin, Texas, said through a megaphone. “They’re going to do everything they can to criminalize us.”
    Fithian is a career community organizer known for her organizing of protests on behalf of a broad range of Marxist groups, ranging from ACORN and Code Pink to Occupy Wall Street.

    As noted last year:
    To say that Lisa Fithian is just a paid-professional protester would be to undersell her radical accomplishments. True, she’s received compensation from the SEIU and the SEIU’s labor federation Change to Win as a consultant. However, her war on the free market goes well beyond that. Last year, Fithian helped the UAW shut down Bank of America branches and, now, is helping the #OccupyWallSt protesters wage their occupations all across America.
    As the founder of today’s American labor movement said nearly a century ago:
    “I want to urge devotion to the fundamentals of human liberty – the principles of voluntarism. No lasting gain has ever come from compulsion. If we seek to force, we but tear apart that which, united, is invincible….I want to say to you, men and women of the American labor movement, do not reject the cornerstone upon which labor’s structure has been builded – but base your all upon voluntary principles and illumine your every problem by consecrated devotion to that highest of all purposes – human well being in the fullest, widest, deepest sense.” — Samuel Gompers, American Federation of Labor
    As unions and their allies lay siege to the Michigan capitol on Tuesday, they’re exposing their true motives: Today’s unions are not about freedom of choice, they are about power and politics.

    On Tuesday, Samuel Gompers’ principles of voluntarism will once again be cast aside as unions and their allies protest to continue their right to force payment from workers.
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  7. #87
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    new london, wi
    Posts
    622

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coachmo View Post
    So murral if nonunion workers aka "leaches" as you call them are caught drinking beer and smoking pot at lunch like union workers and are fired do they get their jobs back through arbitration like union workers? Just wondering.
    That was my point exactly. If the establishment is represented by a union, the non-union/"leeches" get the same representation and benefits as the dues paying members, they just don't contribute dues to receive said representation and benefits. Just like the people that get the entitlements that reblodlicans complain about. Yet they don't complain about the people receiving benefits and representation and wages without paying for them because they don't want to pay dues. those same people that don't want to pay the dues, will be the first ones running to the shop steward when they get in a pinch and need representation. the shop steward is required to represent all employees because there is a union contract in place.
    Last edited by murral stark; 12-10-2012 at 06:56 PM.

  8. #88
    Senior Member coachmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    909

    Default

    Murral, so let me get this straight. I work in a field that has a significant (that means a bunch) number of union workers and I decide to not join the union so in your mind that makes me a leech. That is some twisted and skewed logic for sure. You somehow equate this with someone not working and receiving entitlements. Where do you get this stuff from? You're a classic!
    Last edited by coachmo; 12-10-2012 at 09:49 PM.

  9. #89
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    new london, wi
    Posts
    622

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coachmo View Post
    Murral, so let me get this straight. I work in a field that has a significant (that means a bunch) number of union workers and I decide to not join the union so in your mind that makes me a leech. That is some twisted and skewed logic for sure.
    do you receive the same wages and benefits, plus representation from the union if you were up for disciplinary action? If so, yes, you are a leech. If you are not getting the same as the union dues paying members, then you are not a leech. If you want to drink the beer, help pay for the keg. If you don't want to help pay for the keg, don't expect any beer for free. Isn't that the GOP mindset, nobody gets a handout without contributing something? Or is that only when it suits your needs for the day?

  10. #90
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SW Minnesota
    Posts
    2,212

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coachmo View Post
    Murral, so let me get this straight. I work in a field that has a significant (that means a bunch) number of union workers and I decide to not join the union so in your mind that makes me a leech. That is some twisted and skewed logic for sure. You somehow equate this with someone not working and receiving entitlements. Where do you get this stuff from? You're a classic!
    If you haven't been paying attention many on here equate union workers (the working guys) as leaches.
    Last edited by mngundog; 12-10-2012 at 11:59 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •