The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 12 of 19 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 187

Thread: Michigan........

  1. #111
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    So as to not suggest that the almighty $$$ is the only thing a union is concerned with, I remind you there are literally hundreds of working conditions spelled out in a labor agreement. And remember, a contract of any kind WORKS BOTH WAYS. It’s an agreement negotiated by 2 parties that defines the rights AND the responsibilities of EACH. Both the company AND the workers. And in the case of labor contracts, it is always the practice that all rights and decisions that are not stipulated in the agreement are the discretion of management.

    Without exception, all those “work rules” contained in union contracts, have come about as the result of a past disregard for the working conditions of the workers. If workers are satisfied with the terms of their employment and believe it is equitable, there is no need to write language addressing it.

    As an example off the top of my head; we once had a common practice of notifying employees on very short notice, that we would be working on Saturday. Because of some ‘unforeseen circumstance” the supervisor could come to you at 2 PM on Friday afternoon and inform you the line would be running tomorrow and you WILL be here. No concern that you may have planned to take the kids camping for the weekend or that one of them had a Saturday morning football game. This was never an everyweek occurrence but it happened way too often. Furthermore, when you got there on Saturday morning, you would often find there was only enough material available to work a couple hours and were then sent home! Made the employees really happy and willing to go the extra mile for the company!

    We raised the issue in negotiations (that’s referred to as a “union demand” ). Long story short, the company insisted they needed the flexibility to respond to “short-notice production needs”. We dropped it.

    For the next three years (3-year contract) the practice continued and the next negotiations it was a higher priority issue. Again, the company dug in their heels on the right to schedule production as they saw fit, but at the eleventh hour, we did get a letter of agreement pledging that they would “endeavor” to plan further ahead and minimize these last minute notifications. (I have not forgotten that ratification meeting! Not popular with the rank & file! )

    The situation did improve a little but was still an issue. We processed a number of grievances during the contract period ... basically just to document the problem, as the “pledge” letter was weak and not binding. At the NEXT negotiations, we were successful in getting resolution that notification of weekend overtime must be given by the preceding Wednesday and that the overtime would first be offered as voluntary to the most senior qualified employee and go down the list until they filled the need. If they got to the bottom of the seniority list and still needed more people, they could start back up the list and assign it as mandatory.

    There were further restrictions on mandatory weekend overtime but, guess what??? Once the language was in the contract, the issue went away! Supervisors discovered they could easily avoid the problem by doing their job and properly planning ahead. Rarely was there any Saturday production after that ... (wonder how much that saved the company in overtime pay because the managers involved, had to start doing their job). And when there WAS an unforeseen need, there was never any problem getting enough qualified workers to volunteer. It has never been a hindrance to the company and employees can plan a family weekend just like anyone else.

    And this is one single, simple benefit that the freerider gets right along with the rest of the members. There are hundreds.

    JS
    Right to work does not take away the right to organize. Why do we assume that the employee has to pay the union for this? Maybe the employees could bid out collective bargaining services and hire a firm to negotiate a contract for them. Not sure how this is freeriding when they only have one choice. Maybe they are protesting instead of freeriding?

  2. #112
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    I have never been employed at a non union shop that allowed me to pick my own plan, why should a union shop be any different?
    your non-union shop only offered one plan but there were countless plans available to you and there still are. Its your choice to take advantage of the employers plan or not!

  3. #113
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SW Minnesota
    Posts
    2,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieverNation View Post
    your non-union shop only offered one plan but there were countless plans available to you and there still are. Its your choice to take advantage of the employers plan or not!
    My choice was to go with one of my employers plans or not at all, I don't believe unions shops mandate their employees pay for a plan if they don't want one, am I wrong?

  4. #114
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,437

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieverNation View Post
    Just insert piece work into the equation and my bet is any hardworking man can beat that difference through his hard work and dedication. As far as the benefits go, give the union man a choice to either buy the unions plans or give his money back to find his own. Why force him to buy the unions health and pension, especially when you can easily see both are commonly riddled with fraud and embezzlement. Compete, don't force!
    Did you miss the part that says our production workers work on a peicework plan? It's not without faults either, but it is a moneymaker for both the company and the worker. Some work however, does not lend itself well to that kind if measurement.

    Regarding benefits, we negotiate health coverage with the company as part of the agreement. How they provide it is their business decision. Ours happens to be a "Cadillac" plan from United Health care (for which I am very appreciative). Try to do better than that on your own. As far as pension ... again, we negotiate the benefit; management handles the money. They send it to me each month in a large, brown paper bag!

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ... at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  5. #115
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,437

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieverNation View Post
    Right to work does not take away the right to organize. Why do we assume that the employee has to pay the union for this? Maybe the employees could bid out collective bargaining services and hire a firm to negotiate a contract for them. Not sure how this is freeriding when they only have one choice. Maybe they are protesting instead of freeriding?
    You're serious??? Good luck with that!

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ... at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  6. #116
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,437

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    Stick around Jack your input is always insightful
    Hey Marc, I just check in once in a while out of curiosity and can't keep my mouth shut! You know me ... always bobbin' & weavin'.
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ... at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  7. #117
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    I don't believe unions shops mandate their employees pay for a plan if they don't want one, am I wrong?
    you are correct, the union mandates it if the shop is signatory and the union shop is just along for the ride. Weeeee!

  8. #118
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Berlin, WI
    Posts
    10,658

    Default

    Let's see if I got this;

    If a guy doesn't pay to belong to the union, but gets the benefits, he is a "scab" or a "leech."
    But if a guy doesn't pay taxes, but gets the benefits, he is a ????????????
    Stan b & Elvis

  9. #119
    Senior Member coachmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    877

    Default

    RK, I'm thinking bum would be a good name for tax dodgers but then again according to murral all of us non-union employees that work in fields where others elect to be in a union are leeches. Another fitting name for non-taxpayers according to recent history would be to refer to them as democrats i.e., Geithner, Daschle, Rangel and the list goes on. Just saying.

  10. #120
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SW Minnesota
    Posts
    2,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coachmo View Post
    RK, I'm thinking bum would be a good name for tax dodgers but then again according to murral all of us non-union employees that work in fields where others elect to be in a union are leeches. Another fitting name for non-taxpayers according to recent history would be to refer to them as democrats i.e., Geithner, Daschle, Rangel and the list goes on. Just saying.
    I don't know exactly what your case is but in situations where non-unions workers in the same job are able to piggy back on the pay class and benefits negotiated by union members, leeches would be appropriate.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •