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Thread: Interrogations ... thought provoking

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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Default Interrogations ... thought provoking

    Recently watched a "Law and Order" episode that was very thought-provoking. They always disavow that their episodes are directly related to "real" people ... but this one certainly did seem to do so.

    The DA decided to prosecute a case about waterboarding interrogations (it also cited other methods of physical abuse such as hanging people by their wrists, as was done to McCain in Viet Nam). It revolved around a detainee who died from the interrogation methods. The suit filed by the DA cited as co-conspirators several members of the Bush administration, including Cheyney.

    Nobody wanted the DA to tread on this ground, but he went ahead anyhow. The show explored the varied emotions of those involved in the prosecution. Keep in mind the show's setting is NYC, and those staff members had watched the Towers burn on 9/11.

    The Fed govt also wielded their power to prevent the local DA from moving forward. The political implication cited was that a sitting administration would not allow the trial to proceed, because it would set a precedent for allowing prior administrations to be held legally liable in civilian courts; and, obviously, that also meant that a present administration would then have the same exposure under a new administration. A new twist to an old adage: "The enemy of my enemy is also my enemy"?

    The episode carried through the legal arguments of both the prosecution and the defense ... a thought-provoking summary of the reasoning behind both sides of the argument. The episode ended: the jury had just returned to the courtroom with its verdict, but the verdict was never heard, because at that moment, a Federal marshall entered the courtroom with an order from a Federal court that ended the trial. That Federal court order ended the trial, period, so that the jury's verdict could not even be heard, even though it had already been decided.

    When we have discussed this issue of these interrogation methods in the past, they have centered on the waterboarding. Whether other injurious methods are also involved has never been approached. Are things done that go beyond waterboarding? If so, will we ever know?

    I really feel non-partisan about this. As we have all often mentioned, both political parties (and their adherents) have plenty of dirty laundry in their closets. It is not more right for one or the other party to ignore the laws of the country ... yet, it appears that both parties do that more often than we may know.

    Does war really wipe out our belief in human rights and rule of law, even when the particular human is obviously reprehensible? Even the worst murderers in our society, totally reprehensible humans, will get a trial in our courts before punishment is inflicted. Our laws don't make distinctions WRT whether the criminal is a citizen or not. The laws are supposed to be applied equally to citizens or non-citizens. Even the Nazi war criminals got trials. Even Sadaam Hussein got a trial.

    I don't confuse this issue with whether these potentially dangerous people should remain confined at Gitmo or not; or whether trials should be brought to the mainland. Those are separate issues.
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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    when my dad was writing his memoirs, he documented some of the atrocities that he witnessed inflicted the Japanese, even my mother recounted how they would interrogate her and try to get her to divulge the whereabouts of my dad and his band of guerilla warfare scouts...my mom was subjected to taunts with a bayonnet, being hit with the butt end of a weapon,and obvious threat of a bullet to the head, and it wasnt just her, it was done to all the people in the barrio..

    War is brutal, its ugly...I don't condone any form of torture or interrogation technique, but am not naive enough to think it doesn't happen on both sides..it happens and I am sure it happens under the cloak of, for the love of country and to save countless human lives...sleep deprivation,water boarding..where do you think we learned these techniques
    All my Exes live in Texas

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    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Were your folks in the Philippines?
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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Were your folks in the Philippines?
    Yes they are Filipino...my dad was well educated so they commissioned him as an officer when WWII broke out , his original outfit was the 26th Calvary Filipino American Scouts, he and his group were credited for retrieving a couple of downed American pilots, including one operation where they got one back that had been captured,for that my dad was awarded the Silver Star w/gallantry
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    Yes they are Filipino...my dad was well educated so they commissioned him as an officer when WWII broke out , his original outfit was the 26th Calvary Filipino American Scouts, he and his group were credited for retrieving a couple of downed American pilots, including one operation where they got one back that had been captured,for that my dad was awarded the Silver Star w/gallantry
    Small world. My dad was in the Philippines with the Sea Bees Battalion. Left there for the invasion of Japan. By the time they got Japan, they got off the ship in dress whites.
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    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    Yes they are Filipino...my dad was well educated so they commissioned him as an officer when WWII broke out , his original outfit was the 26th Calvary Filipino American Scouts, he and his group were credited for retrieving a couple of downed American pilots, including one operation where they got one back that had been captured,for that my dad was awarded the Silver Star w/gallantry
    Do you mean US personnel were in danger and Mr Mallari went and got them??


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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Do you mean US personnel were in danger and Mr Mallari went and got them??


    For you Mr Mallari!!
    Yes he got the credit since he led the raid but he wasnt alone, but the reports were that he zapped/killed a couple of the enemy in the process..not something he was proud of, but it was war....he used to get Christmas cards from the pilots families for some time...my uncle who is now 94 and living in Killeen TX was also in that unit, I actually get an invitation every year to attend their reunion, only a handful of them left
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    Yes he got the credit since he led the raid but he wasnt alone, but the reports were that he zapped/killed a couple of the enemy in the process..not something he was proud of, but it was war....he used to get Christmas cards from the pilots families for some time...my uncle who is now 94 and living in Killeen TX was also in that unit, I actually get an invitation every year to attend their reunion, only a handful of them left
    Very neat story Bon... Did they use the same ranks as the US military and if so, what was your dad's rank back then?
    Bill Davis

  9. #9
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Very neat story Bon... Did they use the same ranks as the US military and if so, what was your dad's rank back then?
    with the Filipino scouts he was a Lt, but ended his career as a Captain with the Armored Division out of FT. Hood in Texas, also was a awarded a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  10. #10
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    with the Filipino scouts he was a Lt, but ended his career as a Captain with the Armored Division out of FT. Hood in Texas, also was a awarded a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart
    Very cool... Would have liked to have heard some of the stories he had to tell.
    Bill Davis

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