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Thread: Interrogations ... thought provoking

  1. #11
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    Bon, is there someplace where we can buy what your Dad wrote about his experiences ? Is it in book form ?
    charly

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  2. #12
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charly_t View Post
    Bon, is there someplace where we can buy what your Dad wrote about his experiences ? Is it in book form ?

    We decided as a family that it would not paint anyone including my dad in a good light...My dad's use of certain terms to depict the enemy was not what you would call politically correct, in fact in many ways it was somewhat offensive, but changing the text would not have been fair to my father or his memory either....There was a book written by one of his Army superiors called "Colonel Ramsey's War", it was very complimentary to all,but cleaned up a lot for public consumption...but in my dad's memoirs some things are better off left dead and buried since they benefit no one any longer

    the Movie "The Great Raid" (2005) is very accurate in that members of his unit were part of that raid...

    There is a film project called "Forgotten Soldiers" the history of the US Army's Phillippine Scouts - narrated by Lou Diamond Philips, it has been shown in limited release but I have not seen it yet
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    We decided as a family that it would not paint anyone including my dad in a good light...My dad's use of certain terms to depict the enemy was not what you would call politically correct, in fact in many ways it was somewhat offensive, but changing the text would not have been fair to my father or his memory either....There was a book written by one of his Army superiors called "Colonel Ramsey's War", it was very complimentary to all,but cleaned up a lot for public consumption...but in my dad's memoirs some things are better off left dead and buried since they benefit no one any longer

    the Movie "The Great Raid" (2005) is very accurate in that members of his unit were part of that raid...

    There is a film project called "Forgotten Soldiers" the history of the US Army's Phillippine Scouts - narrated by Lou Diamond Philips, it has been shown in limited release but I have not seen it yet
    Thanks, Bon. I like "real life" stories. Had an Uncle shot down during WW2. He hid out for a while but was captured and spent a while in a German prisoner of war camp. For many years he did not talk about his experiences but a while before he died he did share some things. He said that the t.V. show Hogan's Heros was actually based at times on some things that went on in that prisoner of war camp. The show about the radio where they used the set out of a guy's ring was more or less true. They did make a radio that way and used it.
    charly

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  4. #14
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    We decided as a family that it would not paint anyone including my dad in a good light...My dad's use of certain terms to depict the enemy was not what you would call politically correct, in fact in many ways it was somewhat offensive, but changing the text would not have been fair to my father or his memory either....There was a book written by one of his Army superiors called "Colonel Ramsey's War", it was very complimentary to all,but cleaned up a lot for public consumption...but in my dad's memoirs some things are better off left dead and buried since they benefit no one any longer

    the Movie "The Great Raid" (2005) is very accurate in that members of his unit were part of that raid...

    There is a film project called "Forgotten Soldiers" the history of the US Army's Phillippine Scouts - narrated by Lou Diamond Philips, it has been shown in limited release but I have not seen it yet

    Screw Political Correctness. Your dad was a decorated hero. From what I have read, the Pacific campaign in many ways made the European campaign look cushy. The Germans were pretty awful, but for truly excessive brutality, you pretty much have to look to the Japs (that's what they called em). Everyone who wants some historical insight should read "The Rape of Nanking", or read about the Bataan death march. Watch some of the interviews with veterans of the two campaigns on the history channel and look at the contrast. Many of those who fought in the Pacific clearly haven't, and never will, forgive and forget. Almost to a man, they still refer to the enemy as "Japs" completely un-repentantly. In some of those interviews I have seen seemingly normal, good guys talk about going out on their own and "hunting" Japs after seeing what they had done to prisoners and civilians. I say "be proud of what your father did, don't worry about PC nonsense. People should remember just how tough things were in the Pacific. Don't forget, the last Japanese soldier only finally surrendered in 1974, 29 years after the end of the war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    We decided as a family that it would not paint anyone including my dad in a good light...My dad's use of certain terms to depict the enemy was not what you would call politically correct, in fact in many ways it was somewhat offensive, but changing the text would not have been fair to my father or his memory either....There was a book written by one of his Army superiors called "Colonel Ramsey's War", it was very complimentary to all,but cleaned up a lot for public consumption...but in my dad's memoirs some things are better off left dead and buried since they benefit no one any longer

    the Movie "The Great Raid" (2005) is very accurate in that members of his unit were part of that raid...

    There is a film project called "Forgotten Soldiers" the history of the US Army's Phillippine Scouts - narrated by Lou Diamond Philips, it has been shown in limited release but I have not seen it yet
    One of my uncles fought in the island campaigns, other than the souvenirs he never wanted to discuss it. He brought 3 rifles home, same caliber but the parts were not interchangeable.

    I went to the Phillipines as a consultant, the Executive VP of the mining company had been in the "Death March", other than showing me a picture of how emaciated he was there was no forther discussion. All the pilots for PAL were WWII AF pilots. The company pilot was a former Army Air Corps pilot, fortunately he was very good as that is the preferred method of transport.

    I was supposed to stay as the Mine Super but opted out of my contract as the corruption & the security were not at the level I would expect for my family. If one of my little guys had been kidnapped, I'm not sure I could have dealt with that. Though one of them would have probably been returned post haste .
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Dustin D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Does war really wipe out our belief in human rights and rule of law, even when the particular human is obviously reprehensible?
    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    War is brutal, its ugly...I don't condone any form of torture or interrogation technique, but am not naive enough to think it doesn't happen on both sides..it happens and I am sure it happens under the cloak of, for the love of country and to save countless human lives

    Have either one of you served overseas in Combat? Nothing personal, just asking.

    Without dabbing too much beyond OPSEC I can personally attest that Water boarding as well as all other enhanced interrogation techniques have their place and do indeed save lives.

    Here's the time from such techniques;
    -22 yr old Taliban member PUC'd at a VCP.
    -Waterboarded/Interrogated for 48 hours on site
    --Info given up was a 2nd largest weapons cache in Afghan War History and the location of a Med. Dr sewing up injured Insurgents.
    -Cache found and destroyed.
    -Dr. was PUC'd from his dinner table. The Dr. gives up 3 HVT locations as well as as word of an ambush on local trucks carrying supplies to a near-by Allied Base who was being escorted by US Forces.
    --ambush was indeed set up but never happen due to a very strategic Warthog Run called in by US Forces.
    -2 of 3 HVT's were also PUC'd the 3rd ended up being a high speed projectile receiver.

    --The other two received similar treatment and gave up similar information and so on and so fourth the story goes. All from one young insurgent who gave up information extracted by enhanced interrogation techniques. This tiny piece of info led to a Country wide Spider web of information where by US Forces we able to put a HUGE dent in Insurgent procedures and numbers all around.

    You can do the same thing backwards in seeing how we came to find out where OBL was hiding.

    You're right. War is ugly and it's not for the faint of heart. It also shouldn't be judged by those who have never had a hand in it and especially those who have never directly benefited from those interrogation techniques. Not saying that’s either one of you I don’t know your background.

    As Ol' Col. Jessup once said what most of us feel should be said to many in Washington and abroad;

    I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it!
    Funny how that works out.

  7. #17
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin D View Post
    Have either one of you served overseas in Combat? Nothing personal, just asking.

    Without dabbing too much beyond OPSEC I can personally attest that Water boarding as well as all other enhanced interrogation techniques have their place and do indeed save lives.

    Here's the time from such techniques;
    -22 yr old Taliban member PUC'd at a VCP.
    -Waterboarded/Interrogated for 48 hours on site
    --Info given up was a 2nd largest weapons cache in Afghan War History and the location of a Med. Dr sewing up injured Insurgents.
    -Cache found and destroyed.
    -Dr. was PUC'd from his dinner table. The Dr. gives up 3 HVT locations as well as as word of an ambush on local trucks carrying supplies to a near-by Allied Base who was being escorted by US Forces.
    --ambush was indeed set up but never happen due to a very strategic Warthog Run called in by US Forces.
    -2 of 3 HVT's were also PUC'd the 3rd ended up being a high speed projectile receiver.

    --The other two received similar treatment and gave up similar information and so on and so fourth the story goes. All from one young insurgent who gave up information extracted by enhanced interrogation techniques. This tiny piece of info led to a Country wide Spider web of information where by US Forces we able to put a HUGE dent in Insurgent procedures and numbers all around.

    You can do the same thing backwards in seeing how we came to find out where OBL was hiding.

    You're right. War is ugly and it's not for the faint of heart. It also shouldn't be judged by those who have never had a hand in it and especially those who have never directly benefited from those interrogation techniques. Not saying thatís either one of you I donít know your background.

    As Ol' Col. Jessup once said what most of us feel should be said to many in Washington and abroad;



    Funny how that works out.

    Have not served in the military...but I come from a military family and am fully aware of what the benefits of interrogation are
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  8. #18
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Dustin, no, I have not served ... but I know that many on this Forum have ... and that's why I presented this: to see the opinions of those who may have the first-hand experience and how that influences their beliefs. And, also, where do they think the line is drawn between what they feel they can countenance and what they could not.

    Absolutely, as Bon alluded, means of torturing our fellow man seems to be as old as our species. Other species kill their own. Some even kill without the need for food or defense. Yet, it appears that only humans (perhaps some of the higher apes?) are capable of torture.

    I would think that it is easier to countenance murder and torture for a culture that does not value each individual life. Since most of our Western culture places value on each individual, it is more difficult for us to accept, I believe. Yet, even our Western culture recognizes the principle of killing another human in self-defense; capital punishment for certain criminals; and even killing in war (which could be interpreted as an extension of self-defense).

    Use of some level of force in interrogation in times of war seems to be somewhere along the continuum. Civilized countries have even come to the agreement that POWs deserve certain humane considerations ... though even then we know those "rules" may be stretched or ignored by some countries. Terrorism abides by none of those rules.

    As the title of the thread indicates: a topic that is thought-provoking.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    One can try and justify interrogation based on the info received and the benefit of that info....but there is a fine, make that a blur between interrogation and torture...and just because we do it does that make it ok, whereas when the enemy does it , that makes it reprehensible....what happens when someone dies as a result of interrogation techniques?
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    One can try and justify interrogation based on the info received and the benefit of that info....but there is a fine, make that a blur between interrogation and torture...and just because we do it does that make it ok, whereas when the enemy does it , that makes it reprehensible....what happens when someone dies as a result of interrogation techniques?
    If it's one of them that ends up dead, then, well, just the fortunes of war, if one of us, clearly a war crime.
    Last edited by HPL; 12-10-2012 at 09:46 PM.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
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    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

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