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Thread: Pythiosis

  1. #1
    Senior Member kona's mom's Avatar
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    Default Pythiosis

    Does anyone know what the incubation period is for pythiosis? I have researched but can't find the info
    Nicole


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    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Email Tammy Bell: info@findretrievers.com

    There is also a facebook group just called pythiosis. It's an open group, so you could also pose the question there.
    Susan

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  3. #3
    Senior Member TBell's Avatar
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    The majority of dogs who come in contact with it will get a case of diarrhea and maybe vomiting and then get well. Most dogs are naturally resistant, however, a small number of them are not. They believe it is due to some weakened state of the immune system.

    Cutaneous cases can be seen and are skin lesions that do not heal and progressively get worse. Gastrointestinal Pythiosis is very hard to diagnose until it has taken over their whole intestines. I suspect that process takes only a total of 2-3 months to get to a stage that is very hard, if not impossible to cure.

    There is a blood test made by PavLab in Texas that will give you a titre reading of exposure to the pathogen if you are worried that your dog has come in contact with it. They also make an immunotherapy product that is very good in treatment of the disease if caught early. I have given the vaccine to my dogs as a preventative because I lost a dog to the disease, and it is common in my area.

    Areas of recent outbreaks right now seem to be TX, northern CA (very rare in CA), northern FL, Mesa, AZ (also very rare in AZ), Charlotte, NC, and Green Bay, WI (also very rare in WI). It is unfortunate to see it in these new areas.

    Please see my website http://www.pythiosis.com for additional information. I also have some new studies and immune boosting diet info.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Do the test Nicole.....even if the giardia comes back pos.
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    I sent in blood work to Pavlab and so did someone else both our dogs came back positive they wanted to sell us the immune booster so I called LSU and talked to a doctor there that does research for Pythiosis and she said she has had a lot of people call her who's dog have come back positive from that lab. While she didn't say it was a scam she hinted that their motivation might be to sell the booster. I then called Pavlabs and asked if it can show up in their systems but not effect them and they said yes but it would be wise to go ahead and give them the booster to make sure. Nether one of our dogs ended up having it so if you do send the blood work off and it comes back positive I would check with LSU or another source before I got to worried.
    HRCH Dallys Wild Willow SH Born 11-06-97 Left Us 1-30-12 will always be in my thoughts RIP Willow

  6. #6
    Senior Member TBell's Avatar
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    The PavLab blood test comes back with titres to the pathogen that are either low, medium, or high. PavLab indicates high as positive and recommends the vaccine. A high reading from PavLab does not mean your dog will die from the disease. In my opinion, it should only be used as an early indicator of the disease.

    The LSU blood test has a yes or no test result. Their vets refuse to talk to anyone other than a veterinarian, so if you aren't a vet, then you probably talked to someone in their clinic. Their test is more reliable as to whether your dog actually has an active case of Pythiosis. Their test indicates more accurate results, but I don't believe that it helps catch the disease when it is in its earliest stages and is more curable.

    LSU has made no further discoveries for treating Pythiosis other than their study done over 10 years ago when they developed their blood test and resection treatment protocol which is admittedly less than 25% effective. When neither LSU or LSU trained vets will even tell you about the vaccine treatment, it makes you wonder whether they have the best interest of the dog in mind........

    The University of Georgia just published a paper using the resection treatment in combination with the vaccine which they admit could have been beneficial. Contact me if you want a copy of the study.

    Again, most dogs recover from Pythiosis just fine. Some go on to get the full fledged disease and DIE. I get hundreds of emails each year from those owners who have a dying or dead dog. Photos are on my website.

    If your dog has unresolved gastrointestinal issues, then my suggestion is to do the PAVLAB blood test for help in further diagnosis. If it comes back high and you are in an area where it is common the get the vaccines.
    Last edited by TBell; 12-10-2012 at 11:05 AM.

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    Tammy this was a couple of years ago when they sent me the results it just said he tested positive. I went to my vet and had him call LSU he did speak to a vet there and he put me on the phone and I spoke to her. When I called Pavlab they didn't call it a vaccination they said it was an immune booster which when they explained it it sounded like it was B12 and a combination of other vitamins. It was 2 or 3 years ago so they may have changed things now but I just remember getting the results back as positive with no other explanation and being very upset thinking my dog had it.
    HRCH Dallys Wild Willow SH Born 11-06-97 Left Us 1-30-12 will always be in my thoughts RIP Willow

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    Senior Member TBell's Avatar
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    Thanks, Scott.

    It is best that all understand the PavLab test. I do think that placing 'positive' on their results, instead of 'high', is confusing, but Bob Glass will explain it all honestly and simply to anyone that asks. This is probably why LSU claims that PavLab's test contains 'false positives'. I can understand your concern and want to clarify.

    It is a very, very tough disease to diagnose. The problem is that it is so aggressive, that once your normal diagnosis time is over, the disease is into its later stages and uncurable.

    Other indications for an early diagnosis would be, a rise in the white blood cell (WBC) and Abdominal contrast studies and ultrasound may reveal thickening of the GI tract or an abdominal mass.

    So my best (and most economical) recommendations are (if your vet can't come up with a reason for the intestinal problem) to send a simple blood sample to PavLab. If the results come back 'high' or 'positive', and you are in an area where Pythiosis has been diagnosed, then give the immunotherapy treatment immediately.

  9. #9
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    I consider Tammy an expert on this topic. When I first met her, it will be about 9 years ago coming up the end of January. It was my first derbies at the Triple D-Q. Tammy was running a magnificient dog by the name of Ragin Rusti Steel. I will NEVER forget that dogs DRIVE and the joy in Tammy's voice when she would release that dog.... RUUUUSSSS TI. They were something to watch - quite the team. Rusti died at 4 from pythiosis. He had an open 4th under his belt. It was a shame. She became an expert the hard way - loosing a dog she loved.

    If there is ever any doubt, do the test, and give the darn shots. It's not that expensive. I've had it done on one of mine. Luckily, his test came back negative. Don't learn about it the hard way. I give the info to all my vets. They need to know and be educated.
    Susan

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  10. #10
    Senior Member TBell's Avatar
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    Thanks so much, Susan! As a matter of fact it will be 10 years the end of this 'past' January and 11 next Jan.!!

    Rusti died July of 2006 after a couple of months of feeling just not quite himself. He had bouts of diarrhea on and off frequently, but in May I could tell he wasn't feeling his best.

    We would train at 5 in the morning in July and the day before he died, he did 2 big water blinds and two water marking set ups. The next morning as I was putting our birds in the 4 wheeler he began throwing up until he couldn't stand. We went to the vet and that was the end. Very bad way to learn about the terrible disease that starts with 'P' something.

    He was a marking machine and sounded like a freight train going by when you were out throwing him marks. It was a pleasure to stand by his side for 4 years. I vowed to do my best to help others for Rusti's sake.

    I wish I could say things have changed about the disease, but not much has. It hasn't been an easy task to educate vets and owners about it. My website has done more to help owners than anything, but unfortunately it is usually too late by the time they find that information. Their stories are all much the same as mine, and their photos are even harder.......

    For Rusti's sake, we have saved several dogs......even after vet schools had given up hope and advised owners to have them euthanized. Charlie Moody has one, and he is now an 'FC' who competed in this past Nationals! I'm sure Rusti would be proud of us! (and his son Max!!)
    Last edited by TBell; 12-10-2012 at 02:20 PM. Reason: years

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