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Thread: Heeling Techniques

  1. #21
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Here is a combination of food , e collar and no rope. Its a 5 month 3 week pup. ever week is a giant leap in a puppies life... With this method you can teach the dog the position with absolutely no forging . As the dog gets older,, corrections will be involved and a higher level of force,,,because eventually the focus will be out in the field and not up at the trainer. You can't tell here that the dog is being forced but you may be able to tell when its used based on the dogs behavior and then see the change. Its pretty gentile but very effective on a young pup that doesn't have a whole lot of distractions



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amSxM_mswzQ
    So you are giving her e collar nicks in the video? I see her jump and then quick put her head down in a few spots, it looks like she is getting reprimanded somehow.

    Thanks for posting, I learn a lot by seeing.
    Renee P

  2. #22
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    Pete, during the heeling I couldn't tell if you ever used the collar, did you?

    I thought you may have used it on the very first, "Here," when she was off camera but that was it.
    Yes Howard the first here. Also when she lagged or started loosing focus on a couple of occasions She was also offered a treat some of the time in conjunction of the "subliminal force" such a low level its pretty much undetectable as an bad thing. its not collar conditioning ,,its pre CC. It allows me to get a head of the game a little,,,,


    at 42 seconds or there abouts is an obvious lag or deviation. sometimes there is a command and sometimes there isn't so we are starting to teach responsibility with gentile introduction.


    Mitty
    Its not enough stim that they respond like that,,,they have no idea,,, it would be like a dog laying in the sun and getting up and moving in the shade when it gets to hot. They don't feel reprimanded when this happens. The couple times she was next to me she just put her head down for what ever reason who knows,,, focus off the handler is inevitable any way once the fun is out in the field
    Last edited by Pete; 12-13-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Pete, you're using continuous stim until she gets back into position, yes?
    Darrin Greene

  4. #24
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    Darrin
    Yes I use continuous just like one would do during any -R process. A nick would in many cases not be registered at all and thus the dog would never recognize comfy / not as comfy. It may not be every ones cup of tea,, but its low impact and doesn't cause conflict between the young dog and handler. In fact it may help ward it off later in training

    And its one of the best ways to incorporate then merge methods initially with aggressive dogs. In that discipline one can definitely see the advantage,,, with happy go lucky retrievers ,,,maby it doesn't matter ,,,,just another way of doing it.
    Last edited by Pete; 12-13-2012 at 08:48 AM.
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  5. #25
    Senior Member runnindawgz's Avatar
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    Below is a copy/paste of a “Hand out” I give to students based on leash skills; keep in mind the second part of the exercise is geared towards “heads up” competitive obedience style heel work - but if you use the methods and don’t focus on the eye contact same applies.

    I use primarily positive techniques to encourage an understanding of the heel positing in general - then balance correction and reward based on positioning as the dog progresses. I use LOTS of food reward for solid eye contact and good positioning but this hand-out also talks about use of leash for correction (if OP wants info about not using an E collar).

    Most importantly: KEY is remember - the walk only moves forward if the dog is in position.


    Leash Walking: Basic Obedience
    Danielle Pellicci ~ www.BlackFootKennels.com

    Before we can teach a dog to walk closely in the “heel “position” two things must happen:
    1) The dog must be “Leash Broke” which simply means to be able to walk on a loose leash without pulling....and ....
    2) The dog must have a solid understanding of what the heel position is in terms of a stationary behavior.

    1) Basic Leash “Breaking” (Walking without pulling):
    Use an appropriate training collar and a 4 or 6 foot lead. Hold the lead over your right wrist and across the front of your body. With your left hand guide the leash so it does not drag.

    Start in the heel position with your dog on your left side. Take your first step with your left foot. If your dog forges ahead, the walk should STOP abruptly. Nudge him back to the position and start again, or, pivot to the right (about turn opposite direction) and repeat. If your dog turns right you go left. If he goes forward, you go back, etc.. In this fashion the dog is forced to follow you from behind and starts to pay closer attention.

    Do not use a sweeping motion (like reeling in a fish) to bring the dog back to the start position. Always give slack and nudge back with reasonable force in short bursts. This will give the dog a chance to make a good decision and pay attention to your movements.Walking backwards while in the act of nudging to the heel positon (left side) is a great way to get this point accross. Remember to praise and / or treat when the dog is doing a good job!

    Remember to keep training walks and potty walks separate at first. Set reasonable goals. Remember, your left hand is there for support only. You can stop the dog’s full body weight with your right wrist and brace your self. The left hand should smoothly travel up and down the length of the lead and only tighten momentarily to “nudge,”“pop,” or “snap” at the leash. If a dog is lagging; I reccomend praiseful encouragement rather than using the leash pop.

    2) Transferring from leash breaking to walking at heel with attention:
    Heel work: “heel” is a helpful skill for you and your dog to master. A dog and handler moving together in sync is not only a graceful thing to watch but is also proof that a dog is offering his / her full attention and offering complete respect. Certainly heel with attention is KEY if you intend to pursue any type of formal competitive obedience venue.

    Start with your dog in the stationary heel position with eyes up attention on you.

    Find the place on the leash where if you were to snap your wrist the leash would abruptly stop your dog. I like to call this the 1st POSITION and when walking at heel your hand should always be relaxed and travel back to this spot. The 1st position will be closer the collar in taller dogs and farther away with shorter dogs. But never tightly held with tension unless your wrist was the flinch.

    When teaching heel - start SIMPLE and strive for a high standard of eye contact and attention. Remember the two types of “HEEL FINISHES” that we can teach a dog in order to set him / her in the right position at our left before moving forward: A swing finish is preferred for this context. But either a swing or parade finish is appropriate when just starting out for the 1st steps (See your homework packet for heel finish descriptions and teaching techniques).

    Start with a solid proofed foundation with attention in the heel position for an extended period of time offering multiple opportunities to correct or praise/reward for lack of or solid attention.
    Gently move forward with the left foot using plenty of body language to encourage the dog to move forward while maintaining both eye contact and the heel position (start with one slow paced step and build). It is recommended to only take a few steps at a slow pace and treat/release/play break. Over time as you set reasonable goals and build upon them, you will see that your dog is capable of “Heads up heeling” at any pace, direction change, etc...
    Remember to TREAT FROM THE TRIANGLE at random intervals of heads up heeling (treat frequently at first) to help ensure the dogs eyes and head remain UP! Set small reasonable goals and build up to direction changes, distraction tolerance, pace changes, etc...
    Last edited by runnindawgz; 12-13-2012 at 09:02 AM.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    .... and doesn't cause conflict between the young dog and handler.
    .

    This is the method I've used on my last 3 or 4 dogs except I use a clicker for precision. (clicker in one hand - transmitter in the other). I like it partially for the reason Pete mentioned above. I believe sometimes there can be "resentment" for lack of a better word when you jerk a dog w/ a choke/prong collar that is avoided by this method.

    Mostly though, it has worked better for me than other methods.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Great video, Pete. That is what I do, too, but without the collar. I start inside in a large room and make sure the dog knows I have the clicker and am starting a training session. Start walking around with dog on left and click when dog is in perfect heel postion, lots of quick succession clicks/treats. 3 min sessions x 2. Then when I think dog knows that being in that position while walking is what wins a click, I start using the word "heel". Dog is perfect position, i say "heel" then click, then treat. When dog is solid inside, take it outside where it is more distracting and start over. Reduce the expectations.

    Once dog is up to par outside off leash, I go back inside and put the leash on. Adding the leash is a distraction, so I go back to square one and do the drill with leash. This way, the dog learns the leash is also part of the drill and that the expectations don't change because it is on.

    The first dog I did this with, I didn't go back and add the leash exercise. Dog would heel all day long past a parade circus - as long as he was off leash. Put the leash on and the pulling began. So now, I include it in the lesson - helps a lot.

    Edit: 1.) Clicker training requires that you "Charge" clicker so dog knows a click means a treat. 2.) Once dog learns what the word "heel" means and the correct position, you can put the clicker and treats away.
    Last edited by Jennifer Henion; 12-13-2012 at 10:38 AM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    Great video, Pete. That is what I do, too, but without the collar. I start inside in a large room and make sure the dog knows I have the clicker and am starting a training session. Start walking around with dog on left and click when dog is in perfect heel postion, lots of quick succession clicks/treats. 3 min sessions x 2. Then when I think dog knows that being in that position while walking is what wins a click, I start using the word "heel". Dog is perfect position, i say "heel" then click, then treat. When dog is solid inside, take it outside where it is more distracting and start over. Reduce the expectations.

    Once dog is up to par outside off leash, I go back inside and put the leash on. Adding the leash is a distraction, so I go back to square one and do the drill with leash. This way, the dog learns the leash is also part of the drill and that the expectations don't change because it is on.

    The first dog I did this with, I didn't go back and add the leash exercise. Dog would heel all day long past a parade circus - as long as he was off leash. Put the leash on and the pulling began. So now, I include it in the lesson - helps a lot.

    Edit: 1.) Clicker training requires that you "Charge" clicker so dog knows a click means a treat. 2.) Once dog learns what the word "heel" means and the correct position, you can put the clicker and treats away.
    Ditto about the Ecollar-no Ecollar
    and ditto about the leash-made that mistake with my older guy and now if you put a lead on in a test he pulls. And I only used flat collar on the two younger but a pinch on the older dog to teach them. Trick is to wean them from the pinch because you can't use it in a test, same with the Ecollar trick is to teach them to lead without the Ecollar!IMHO
    Thanks for sharing the video Pete.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Darrin
    Yes I use continuous just like one would do during any -R process. A nick would in many cases not be registered at all and thus the dog would never recognize comfy / not as comfy. It may not be every ones cup of tea,, but its low impact and doesn't cause conflict between the young dog and handler. In fact it may help ward it off later in training

    And its one of the best ways to incorporate then merge methods initially with aggressive dogs. In that discipline one can definitely see the advantage,,, with happy go lucky retrievers ,,,maby it doesn't matter ,,,,just another way of doing it.
    Just checking myself Pete. I think of it like steering a horse and explain it to people that way. They seem to get it pretty well with that explanation. I'm starting to skip over the pinch collar and go to this more and more often now. Thanks for clarifying.
    Darrin Greene

  10. #30
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
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    I think of it like the game "Hot & Cold" you played when you were a kid. Using only P+ would be like only saying "cold" as the child moves in the wrong direction while only using R+ would be like only saying "hot". It only makes sense to me to use both to communicate most efficiently.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
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