One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift
I don't "hate" anyone.
I do not "hate" any union member.
In specific, trade unions are needed for a variety of reasons.
Many contracters can get needed labor from the hall, a way for guys to get work in the trades.
"DA UNION" is a reference to the type tactics used recently in WI and currently in MI.
And many places and shops daily.
The earlier comment about $150 to plug in computer in Chicago is a fact.
We do trade shows at McCormack place, DA UNION runs DA show.
I also have an issue with the fact DA UNION has become a "cash cow" for the secular progressives.
Some of my best friends are in unions, some are not.
AS far as hating people with money, very poor reason to judge a man.
Judge them by their heart and soul, not their bank account.
I consider myself one of tremendous wealth, do you hate me because of that?
Do you hate menmon??
He reminds us often of his income and finacial stature.
It's all a matter of perspective.
And again, I hate no one.
Last edited by road kill; 12-14-2012 at 06:06 AM.
Stan b & Elvis
I know that I come off as a total union supporter on here. Far from the truth. I have had sort of a bad taste in my mouth since the mid '80s about unions. I was just getting my start as a young twenty something working for a non-union shop in Detroit. I had moved back down there from Northern Michigan and was staying with my grandpa for 6 months, saving up the money to move into an apartment. I was making about $10/hour at the time. It was back when Lopez was in charge of purchasing at General Motors. Our company's owner had frozen wages at the time. The economy was not good. Also at the time GM was imposing pricing cuts on their suppliers. The owner having frozen wages posted a letter that he received from GM purchasing. The letter did not ASK for price cuts, the DEMANDED them, stating that if our prices were not cut by something like 10-15%, we would be removed from the approved vendor list.
At that time, GM went on strike. I had to drive past factories with picket lines out front. Knowing at the time that those guys were bringing in eighteen to twenty something an hour, and had awesome benefits, my blood boiled. Their management was MANDATING price concessions from us and the workers were DEMANDING higher wages at a time when the economy was really struggling. I wanted to stop, get out, and throw a few punches at those asshats that were out picketing.
I talked about it with Grandpa while we were watching the news and they were discussing the strikes. Grandpa was one of the original union supporters. He was foreman in a big machine shop at Cadillac Motors before they were part of GM. He told me stories about management lining up the machinists periodically for military type inspections. Guys would get picked on publicly, and periodically they would fire someone during the inspections to instill fear into the ranks. He told me a story about a guy who was supporting a family at home. The guy had an accident and his legs were permanently crippled. The guy could not stand in front of a machine all day. My grandpa said that there was no reason for the guy to stand all day long. He got the guy a stool. The guy was loading parts and then sitting down while the part was being machined. He would get up to make adjustments between cuts, then sit back down. Then back up again to switch out parts. The boss came down and had a fit & took the guy's stool away. Grandpa tried to explain the guy's situation and the big boss says NO ONE will sit on a stool in my shop, I don't care who they are or what their situation. He fired the guy on the spot. That's when Grandpa decided to support the union movement. Anyhow, when we were discussing the strikes that were going on, he looked at me teary eyed and said, this is not what we had in mind.
But in the end, over all, I think the good outweighs the bad. My Dad was a union firefighter. The union forced the city to upgrade working conditions, forced them kicking and screaming to provide adequate safety equipment, etc. I have worked in shops unionized by the IEBW. They were a pain in the arse sometimes, but they did provide very good apprentice training for the employees. There were some in the union that were dead wood, but more often than not they were taken care of with peer pressure from fellow union members. Remember, when someone drags butt, it just puts pressure on the others who work hard to pick up the slack.
The union members are not angels. But I have been in management too, and from what I have heard in meetings, there are some real asshats in that position too. And in the end, I feel it would be much easier for our society to fall back into the practices that took place before the union movement than you might think.
"For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48
Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
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Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
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Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
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It's interesting that labor unions are at a historic low point any way you measure it; in terms of membership, workplaces represented, influence on the economy or influence on government. Members in general are far less interested in the workings or importance of their union, I believe because the younger members never had to go through the struggles to gain what was just there for them when they hired on. They take everything for granted.
(I compare this to retriever clubs having trouble getting members motivated and involved in the work of the club ... it's mostly the "old guys" who carry the load because they are the ones who realize it's "do it or we die". Same syndrome.)
The enigma with the perception of unions is that despite the declining influence of labor, so many people rage on about the terrible conditions of the country and blame it on the unions!!
I don't get that.
ďDonít wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980
Real Americans buy American.
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