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Thread: Carr based training system?

  1. #21
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Don't think of operant conditioning as a "training method" or something we "do to the dog".

    Think of it like gravity. It just is. It's a phenomenon ... a law of nature that exists in the environment and is a reason we learn to do or not do something.

    A dog in the wild will learn to "operate" his environment to fulfill his needs, in accordance with the consequences of his actions. When we take that dog in and train him, all we do is control the consequences.

    JS
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  2. #22

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    yes i understand it is a phenomenom, i was just wondering if they gave it a name yet, i guess thats why dog training is just as much art as science.
    elmer

  3. #23
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Maybe it would be helpful to tell us what Rex Carr based training is NOT. How is a non Rex Carr based system different?
    Renee P

  4. #24
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Maybe it would be helpful to tell us what Rex Carr based training is NOT. How is a non Rex Carr based system different?
    If it's not Carr based it probably doesn't follow the basic flow chart for teaching a retriever to handle. That would be all.

    Rex gets credit for the flow chart, as Dennis already told you.

    I believe people were "force breaking" dogs long before Rex created his basics program.
    Darrin Greene

  5. #25
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    If it's not Carr based it probably doesn't follow the basic flow chart for teaching a retriever to handle. That would be all.

    Rex gets credit for the flow chart, as Dennis already told you.

    I believe people were "force breaking" dogs long before Rex created his basics program.
    I got bogged down by detail. I couldn't tell if its simply the flow chart that is critical, or if it a RCS must include the many other elements mentioned. So thanks, you cleared that up.
    Renee P

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmer fencl View Post
    then when carr applies the 5 steps, like when he stick fetches a dog on his tape, how does that fit into operant conditioning? teach, force, no force, praise, no praise
    Dennis , or anyone that has the answer ...I'm waiting to read this one .....This can turn out to be a very good learning thread....help...Steve S

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I whole heartedly agree. "Fracture 'em" regards!

    Evan
    Evan , for those that don't know ,please explain " fracture 'em" ...Thanks Steve S ...

  8. #28
    Senior Member BlaineT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post

    Evan , for those that don't know ,please explain " fracture 'em" ...Thanks Steve S ...
    Not evan but from a Carr/rorem seminar ive watched Carr speaks on praising at the end of a session with a long stroke from head to tail with several "good dogs" and a fun bumper until theyre fractured or just so wound up from the praise reward that the dog pretty much just loses it.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlaineT View Post
    Not evan but from a Carr/rorem seminar ive watched Carr speaks on praising at the end of a session with a long stroke from head to tail with several "good dogs" and a fun bumper until theyre fractured or just so wound up from the praise reward that the dog pretty much just loses it.
    Thank you ....Steve S

  10. #30
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Dennis , or anyone that has the answer ...I'm waiting to read this one .....This can turn out to be a very good learning thread....help...Steve S
    Each of those steps mentioned has an element of operant conditioning built in.

    teach includes retrieves, which are rewards so it is +r and it includes no retrieve without proper response which is -p, it may also include a little +p if a long line and collar are used to restrain the dog during incorrect responses.

    force generally refers to -r but also includes +r since the dog does get to chase and retrieve in most behvaiors

    no force is again a -r and +r strategy, in this case the -r is the fact that the correct response avoids pressure, promoting speed and accuracy, and again, there are retrieves which are rewards (+r)

    praise = +r if the dog enjoys it

    no praise = -p (withholding something the dog likes due t incorrect behavior)

    Pretty much everything you do, right, wrong or indifferent provides operant conditioning to the dog. Behaviors are promoted and discouraged all day every day.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 12-17-2012 at 07:04 AM. Reason: corrected typo in "force" description
    Darrin Greene

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