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FT dogs do you hunt with them or not?

12K views 48 replies 38 participants last post by  Buzz 
#1 ·
Im trying to wrap my head around this, How many of you own a retriever and strictly run field trials and not hunt those same dogs? I understand lining and wanting the dog to use his eyes and not the nose, just wonder how many people sucessfully run their dogs in field trials and hunt those same dogs are out there.
 
#2 ·
Absolutely!!! It's what retrievers do best. I recall reading an article about a (maybe) 3x National champion - could have been Lottie - who always went hunting and was famous for breaking on shot birds. BTW - I firmly believes dogs no the difference between going to the line and sitting in a duck blind.
 
#4 ·
Hunted mine this week. In fact during sept and oct my training schedule is hunt monday or tues, train wed run blinds thursday FT on the weekend. They love to hunt and as stated I believe they know the difference.
 
#5 ·
Heck yes, I hunt my FT female, she loves it.
I'm sure she understands the difference in the white coat and the camo.
Also, she loves to put on her vest, she knows we're going to the blind.

Gregg Leonard
 
#6 ·
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I hunted my Lab before I even got into Hunt Tests and Trialing. He went on to become a Master Hunter and QAA. Not too shabby for a lab that loved to upland hunt on Grouse and Woodcock in Northern Michigan. For me a day afield with my boys was the best. Bringing up a new pup that I will train to do the same. Good luck which ever route you take. It's all good.
Kent
 
#7 ·
Same as others. I hunt my young female on both upland birds and waterfowl. Got her QAA last year and will run AA this year. She seems to know the difference and LOVES to hunt. Also hunting her seems to keep her attitude really good for the heavy training that comes during the trial season. Also trialing her has given me the best gun dog I have owned and hunting is the primary reason I own a retriever.
 
#8 ·
I have a 2 year old female that is QAA. This was her first "big" fall where she was constantly with me in the fields (waterfowl) and she guided pheasant hunters in SoDak for 10 days. Up until this year however she spent her time training so that her foundation was solid. The pheasant hunting loosened her up a bit since when guiding things can get pretty chaotic, but thanks to that foundation we're now back in training and getting her back into the "flow" of training has been pretty seamless.
 
#11 ·
Think hunting field trial dogs is great! Isn't that what it's supposed to be about? Pros may not like it, particularly if they've got a dog in training that they think can win, and particularly pheasant hunting. Agree that dogs know difference between hunting and trialing. Still, hunting can loosen them up. My AFC will break on hunting ducks, but never at a trial (so far). I see Canadian Nat'l Am winner hunts from earlier post.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Think hunting field trial dogs is great! Isn't that what it's supposed to be about? Pros may not like it, particularly if they've got a dog in training that they think can win, and particularly pheasant hunting. Agree that dogs know difference between hunting and trialing. Still, hunting can loosen them up. My AFC will break on hunting ducks, but never at a trial (so far). I see Canadian Nat'l Am winner hunts from earlier post.

Always be sure to add this qualifier when saying never, and if there is any wood near-by be sure to knock on it a few times! LOL!

As far as hunting goes, we do a bit in SD... This was taken this October in Ipswitch.

Happy New Year Phil!

Dave Bezesky


 
#12 ·
there is a long distinguished list of champions and National champions that were hunted, going back to John Olin....I would venture a guess that the main reason that FT dogs are not hunted is that their owners may not be waterfowl hunters, add to that that many of today's owners have their dog being campaigned or trained year round, they might be reluctant to bring them home and hunt them...it has very little to do with the myth that you can't hunt a FT dog....ask Michael Flannery about hunting with Corky, or Tom Quinn hunting with Anny

If you hunt, and don't use your FT dog at least one in their career, you are depriving yourself of one of the great pleasures to be had in the outdoors....

But to each their own...everyone has their own agenda
 
#13 ·
Everyone that I know hunts their dogs.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Hunting vs. Campaigning field trial retrievers

Lots of general statements in these posts. Timing is everything. Hunting helps
to develope natural instincts and developes attention, desire and to a point
marking. No question hunting reves up the cadence ... it may be however, at
the expense of control, particularly in the F.T. game and what's demanded
today.

Steadiness in a 'field blind' or in a boat duck hunting and 'control' as to the
"order of birds picked up" also may influence results in a 'non-slip' F.T.

However, jump shoooting, quartering a field pheasant hunting, without question
erodes "trainable qualities" developed thru repetitive consistent training; lining,
stopping and accurately/briskly casting on today's F.T. blinds - land or water.

Everything is relative. Preparing for a series of fall trials with the goal of collecting
final points for a national, or if qualified, I for one would be hard pressed to spend
a week to ten days in Saskatchewan or South Dakota hunting Royal's Moose's Moe, Ripp'n Ready or any of my competitive retrievers I have had over the years.

W. D. Connor
 
#17 ·
The reason I originally asked this question is there are so many books where this subject comes up and would seem the author's believe a hunting dog is different from a Field Trial dog and seems that a dog can be one or the other but not both. While I understand a dog trained specifially for hunting would by no means be able to perform at the level demanded for field trials, I just cant see why field trial dogs wouldnt be able to hunt, and from all the posts many of you do hunt FT dogs so Im gonna have to say that the common misconception, of either a hunting dog or field trial dog not both is a myth. As some have said I also believe the dogs know the difference from the line to the duck blind. And I guess the concensus would be that the only real trouble one could get themselves in would be if the dog starts breaking and show unsteadiness while hunting and then carrying that same behavior to the line of a trial. So that is good information to know.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Like you I also read a lot of this stuff in books and gun dog magazine when I started in field trials in the early 90s. I wrote a whole article dispelling this myth a year ago for the Golden retriever news.

The "myths" as I see them are 1) Field trial bred dogs are too high powered for the average hunter to handle. 2) Field trial bred dogs are too hyper and figgitty, and are unable to relax in a hunting blind or home in the house. 3) Allowing your dog to relax his standards a bit while hunting, maybe cheat a bank or something, will ruin him as a field trial dog.

I started in this sport because I wanted a good, well trained hunting dog. I hunt lots of upland, but most of my efforts are geared toward waterfowl. I take every hunting season off training to hunt my dogs. Obviously the dogs love it, but I also feel they can use a break from the riggors of day training. My dogs definitely know the difference between hunting and trialing, I haven't seen any bad habits pass over from hunting to field trials. Also, my high powered field trial dogs are very well mannered in the hunting blind and at home. Like I said, I believe these issues are myths, plain and simple.

ps, the dog in my avatar is how my dogs sit and watch for birds, they will sit still and watch for birds from dawn to dusk. That incredible prey drive translates into an incredible focus and steadyness with experience in the duck blind.

John
 
#20 ·
I've told this story before, but my wife was flying out on a business trip and got to talking with the guy sitting on the plane next to her. Turns out he was returning home after a wonderful ducking hunting vacation with his brother in law in Montana. They had great shoots every day, but all he could do was rave about the dog work. My wife asks him who his BIL is and he says Bill Totten. Well we know Bill and his dogs, so she asks him which dog. He says some dog Bill called "Shooter". She couldn't believe Bill was using FC-AFC Dust Devils Shoot The Moon, over 300 all age points. I asked her if you wanted to show your brother in law a great time and great dog work, who would you take over Shooter?

John
 
#25 ·
Eric,

Thanks for reposting this.....great video of Roux in action!

Chris
 
#24 ·
Most of the field trial dogs I know of are not hunted much if at all.
They are down south for the winter so the competitors dont get a couple extra months of training over them.
Look at the amount of pros that are south for the winter durring hunting season.
 
#28 ·
Oh, the irony. I just seconds ago finished watching a film of John Olin with 2xNFC King Buck and Bill Cline with NFC Massie's Sassy Boots hunting ducks together in Stuttgart following the 1956 National Open.

It reminded me of this thread.
 
#30 ·
What is everyone's idea of a field trial dog?
Are you talking about a dog that runs some Derby's and Q's or a dog that runs opens and Amateurs?

Also what is your idea of hunting the dog? 3-5 times a year or 10 to 40 times a year?
 
#33 ·
What is everyone's idea of a field trial dog?
Are you talking about a dog that runs some Derby's and Q's or a dog that runs opens and Amateurs?

Also what is your idea of hunting the dog? 3-5 times a year or 10 to 40 times a year?
My personal answer/opinion is that a field trial dog would be a dog that does derbies and Qs when young and runs opens and amateurs when older. I'd say that for a dog to continue to be considered a field trial dog over the course of its career, it should still be running trials. Otherwise it's a dog that used to be a trial dog.

The second one, I'd say "yes". Hunting a dog anywhere from 3 to 40 times per year is still hunting the dog.

Personal goals, time available and other stuff will vary.

I have a 6.5 year old lab who runs a few trials a year and he hunts a few times a year.

My personal opinion is that there's a balance. I think that if one waits until a dog has run trials and done trial training exclusively for too long, it can be a bit of a tough adjustment to get the dog to grasp real hunting. Can it be done? Sure!

I think that if one hunts a young dog too much or allows too loose of a standard too early, it can probably create some problems with trialing down the road. These problems could probably be ongoing.

I look at developing a multi-purpose dog (hunting and trialing) just like the rest of dog training. You put together a plan, but then you adjust as needed.

At this point in my life, I can't see having a retriever that I won't hunt. I can't see having a retriever that I won't "campaign" and try to take to whatever level we can enjoy.

Chris
 
#36 ·
My Idea of a dog that hunts is one that in addition to "retrieving fallen game", hunts upland game in a way similar to a bird dog. That is to say , it finds the game and in some fashion indicates that it has done so and perhaps "holds" it so it can be flushed and shot.

My definition of a field trial dog is one that from time to time sees a few of the water series in the AA ..........


john
 
#37 ·
I never had a trial dog that didn't hunt.

Evan
 
#38 ·
Years ago I read a book by Robert Wehle about English Pointers - some of you might remember the Elhew pointers & their numerous NC's in that venue. The guy was obviously a very talented trainer - his take was that the dog will do what the circumstances dictate if properly trained.

I got into the sport so i could have a well trained dog to hunt with. Preparing for & competing in trials was a way of keeping the dog in condition. The bonus being, your dogs actions will tell you instantly whether a field is birdy or not.
 
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