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  1. #31
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Every source I have been able to find shows dropping crime relates and MUCH lower murder rates than ours. But you all can keep believing what you want.
    I believe that the stats that I have been reading lately say that violent crime in the US is trending down also even with gun sales and ownership up, so what's your point? I still want to see the definitive report on what weapon/s actually caused the deaths at Sandy Hook, although it doesn't really matter to me personally.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    So,, Mr Dogger,,

    What good do MORE Regulations and Laws do,, when we dont enforce the ones we have now????

    The Main Goal for the left is confiscation.... They are synister in the way they work in incremental steps... totally ignoring present unenforced laws, but workingback door methods to circumvent the constitution..



    # 4 regards Indeed!!

    Gooser
    Soo... Mr Mike....? based on your personna, your posts, your pictures in the past, should you be granted a gun permit based on these....? JD

    PS Please cite some recent back-door incremental steps at gun confiscation that have been implemeneted.

    AR15' s are now readily availble at my local Walmart w/ammo and extended magazines.

    JD
    Last edited by JDogger; 12-29-2012 at 10:24 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  3. #33
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post

    I believe that the stats that I have been reading lately say that violent crime in the US is trending down also even with gun sales and ownership up, so what's your point? I still want to see the definitive report on what weapon/s actually caused the deaths at Sandy Hook, although it doesn't really matter to me personally.
    Just pointing out that I am not finding much to support claims I am hearing about how dangerous it is now in the UK since they lost their guns.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  4. #34
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    What year is that? I can't read the a is labels on my phone. I assumed it might have been a spike right after the ban. Don't anyone get me wrong, I am sure not in favor of gun bans etc. I just wonder if the UK is everything it is blown up to be. I had breakfast with a friend this morning and he was practically rabid in his anger over the prospect of us becoming ENGLAND, so I started doing a little looking. He was actually scaring me a little with his talk of stocking up on guns and ammo for the coming meltdown and revolution. Very unhealthy outlook, he sorta seemed to be going all Glen Beck on me.
    2002-2003

    Looking at the bar graph, I don't really see anything very dramatic. The murder rate of the most recent year on the graph seems to be about what it was about 1982. Numbers moved up and down over the entire period of the graph. I think we need to know exactly when the draconian gun laws went into effect before even looking at the graph. It would also be nice to know what other factors might have been in play (economy, employment, etc).
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Soo... Mr Mike....? based on your personna, your posts, your pictures in the past, should you be granted a gun permit based on these....? JD

    PS Please cite some recent back-door incremental steps at gun confiscation that have been implemeneted.

    AR15' s are now readily availble at my local Walmart w/ammo and extended magazines.

    JD
    You mean today?
    Have the prices gone up noticeably?
    I was in a Bass Pro Shop over the weekend and there were NO AR type (using that term as opposed to AW) weapons on the shelves, actually looked like pretty much nothing but bolt actions to me, and certainly no .223 ammo.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

    www.HughLieck.photoshelter.com

  6. #36
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    You mean today?
    Have the prices gone up noticeably?
    I was in a Bass Pro Shop over the weekend and there were NO AR type (using that term as opposed to AW) weapons on the shelves, actually looked like pretty much nothing but bolt actions to me, and certainly no .223 ammo.

    Are they sold out? I heard from a guy who owns a gunship today that in the last week he sold 500 guns. Completely sold out of many semi automatics, and getting more stock is a problem. He admitted to me before that Obama has been great for business.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  7. #37
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    I havent been in to my local walmart for a week or two now. But, since there are no firearm restrictions put in place yet that I know of, I imagine if manufacturer's are on the ball we will see a ready supply shortly on the market. Soon, discounted AR's on Ebay and Craigslist, as those who over bought try to dump. Only concern is ammo restrictions or taxes, and I only foresee ammo as spot shortages.
    Any gun resrictions to come out of congress will take years if ever.

    Calm down regards, JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  8. #38
    Senior Member Brad Turner's Avatar
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    If Congress and the POTUS can pass gun legislation, when they haven't been able to pass a budget in 4 years, every single one of them should be kicked out of office!
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  9. #39
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Soo... Mr Mike....? based on your personna, your posts, your pictures in the past, should you be granted a gun permit based on these....? JD

    PS Please cite some recent back-door incremental steps at gun confiscation that have been implemeneted.

    AR15' s are now readily availble at my local Walmart w/ammo and extended magazines.

    JD

    Mr Dogger Open your eyes!!!!

    This is the example of what the people of Chcago have had to live under for many years. It took a person who understood his right to be free and own a gun to fight his Local government, and take his case to the Supreme Court. That court has ruled laws of Chcago Unconstitutional just ecently as last year...

    Think of the numbe of people who lived under Opressive, Uncostitutional law for years!

    If you read the Fienstein Bill,, you will see their main objective is confiscation....... Our elected leaders shouldnt even be talking laws that are CLEARLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL... They CAN and DO get passed, as you can see fom Chicagos history...

    The current trdgedy at Sandy Hook, has emotions High.. The left is taking advatage of this emotion,, and stressing that thay want to enact "serious Change" before the end Of January. Hence,, the publics run on the purchasing of guns....

    Below is the example of RECENT people living under Unconstitutional guns laws....


    Local restrictions on the possession of handgunsSome Illinois municipalities have laws restricting the possession of handguns.
    [edit] Current laws

    In Chicago, gun owners are required to have a Chicago Firearm Permit, which costs $100 and must be renewed every three years.[24] Before getting the permit, the resident must complete a training course that includes at least four hours of classroom training and one hour of range time. Each gun must be registered with the Chicago Police Department at a one-time cost of $15 per gun, and an annual registration report must be filed every year.[25] Gun possession is permitted only inside a dwelling, not in a garage or on the outside grounds of the property. Only one gun at a time may be kept in a usable state.[26][27][28] Chicago's ordinances are being challenged in court, with plaintiffs alleging that they are so restrictive and burdensome as to interfere with citizens' Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.[12][29][30]
    Highland Park bars handgun possession unless the resident has obtained a permit from the Highland Park Police. The permit must be renewed every year, and the resident must attend a gun safety and training session, given by the police, every three years.[31]
    [edit] History

    By the late 1980s, several Illinois municipalities had banned the possession of handguns. Chicago required the registration of all firearms but did not allow handguns to be registered, which had the effect of outlawing their possession, unless they were grandfathered in by being registered before April 16, 1982.[32][33] Additionally, several Chicago suburbs had enacted outright prohibitions on handgun possession.
    On June 26, 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller.[34] Chicago and the other municipalities came under legal pressure to change their laws.[35][36] In the months following the Heller decision, handgun bans were repealed in the suburbs of Wilmette,[37]Morton Grove,[38]Evanston,[39] and Winnetka,[40] but Chicago and Oak Park kept their laws in effect.[39][41]
    On June 28, 2010, in the case of McDonald v. Chicago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the handgun bans of Chicago and Oak Park to be unconstitutional.[42]
    On July 12, 2010 a new Chicago city ordinance took effect that allows limited handgun possession after passing a firearms training course and obtaining a permit from the police. Chicago's gun registration requirement is still in effect.[26][27]
    On July 19, 2010 Oak Park amended its town ordinance to allow handgun possession in one's home, leaving no remaining town in Illinois that completely bans handguns.[43]
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  10. #40
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    I havent been in to my local walmart for a week or two now. But, since there are no firearm restrictions put in place yet that I know of, I imagine if manufacturer's are on the ball we will see a ready supply shortly on the market. Soon, discounted AR's on Ebay and Craigslist, as those who over bought try to dump. Only concern is ammo restrictions or taxes, and I only foresee ammo as spot shortages.
    Any gun resrictions to come out of congress will take years if ever.

    Calm down regards, JD


    So,,,, You being a Senior fellow,,, as long as the laws take YEARS to enact,,, Its Ok with you, because it wont directly affect you personally??

    I"m Glad my forefathes didnt have your attitude!!!!

    Our Constitution defines us as Americans. Its the Backbone of our Culture and our Spirit.. It is very unique in the sense of it makes mans desire to be FREE a right Regulated by its Foundation..

    You must not have read the early post of what Fienstien is proposing in her Bill..... Californias laws are already very strict,, She wants those laws made more strick,, and applied nationally.. It does Indeed include a confiscation clause upon death of owner . It does include a heavy Tax on ownership of such curently owned guns... It does include an increased Oppessive registration (sales are already registered)

    Is Miss Fienstien's proposal the Spirit of the constitution? or is it an Agenda to destroy what this country was founded under?? Our Soul???

    If you personally find the Constitution of the United States,, and it Culture disgusting,,,,, Dont live here...

    There are Inherient risks of living in a Free society,,, If we mandate very restrictive laws regulating our God given rights to that Freedom,, we ae no longer Americans as defined by the Countys foundation,,, its Solid base,,,, the Constitution.. Our Counrty will be lost... and the people who have died previously defending it,, will be in vain
    ..

    Remember.... Miss Fienstien took an Oath!!!!!!
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

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