RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

Why is there no training material available?

3K views 11 replies 10 participants last post by  Criquetpas 
#1 ·
So I ask why is there no training material available for common problems for the begining retriever trainer? Have all the Pros out there always been enlightened so much that they never encountered problems? After awhile anyone who does training for a living or a better portion of their life I imagine the problems become easy to deal with. But for those just starting out, those same problems can cause great harm to the dog and someone leaving the sport all together. To me neither is desirable. I ask this because as usual I get to reading something that strikes a chord with no resolution to the problem and I quote "A proper introduction to the gun should last a lifetime. If, however, a dog gets gun shy subsequent to the proper gun introduction, then it is probably because he had his ears "rung" by muzzle blast. If pup gets
out in front the muzzle blast from your shotgun, it will hurt him and will certainly contribute to early deafness." R. Milner. That phrase ended the discussion. So how does that help someone dealing with a gun dog who had proper introduction to the gun get through with a dog that devolps a case of being gun-shy? And let it be known im not picking on the author just simply asking the question? If material is out there that covers common problems someone please let it be known, as I have not come across it as of yet.
 
#3 · (Edited)
There is more information available than you can possibly absord. Like John said above try searching a topic on this forum. Or if you like print material subscribe to Retrievers Online by Dennis Voigt. You can purchase back issues that cover just about any problem imagable. Or buy Mike Lardy's compliation of Retriever Journal articles at only $25 per Volume. Volume I covers the basics. They are available at YBS Media.

It goes on and on. Maybe you haven't been looking in all the right places.
 
#5 · (Edited)
There is plenty of info for beginners out there as mentioned ...You just have to ask specific questions or use the search if too bashful to ask...There is no book listing all the possible problems that can arise in training dogs...Some programs do a better job of covering some of the possible ones better than others...Steve S
 
#6 ·
I wasnt trying to be critical of any author, just seems that all the books and videos I have they hint at problems that might arise during training but dont actually discuss how to go about solving them. And while I realize the list of problems that can arise during training is a long one. I just wanted to know if there were sources that discuss some of the more common problems not just for myself but anyone else who may have the same question. Thanks, Wayne I will look into the Lardy Retriever Journals. And as always there is always searching this forum just have to navigate thru it.
 
#7 ·
The issue is most problems are situational and not so black and white...you are dealing with a living, thinking creature so you have to read the dog and adjust accordingly. To try and put every training issue into written form would take a highly skilled trainer so much time that they would not be gaining the necessary hands on experience to solve such problems...
 
#11 ·
The issue is most problems are situational and not so black and white...you are dealing with a living, thinking creature so you have to read the dog and adjust accordingly...
This statement is right on. Problems are situational and not so black and white and the fixes are that way too. You have to act and react in a split second. Most programs are designed to avoid problems before they happen.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Most of the material about training retrievers is about the perfect world. Follow this program you won't have any problems. I attended a seminar years back and that was the pat answer to your question of what if's. The answer, if you follow our program to the letter,well no problems. Now conventional wisdom even for a newbie, it sounds absurb I think. This forum tries to remedy the what if's you have search for it or ask very specific questions. The sometimes answer you will get is a what program are you ?. You might have to seek out some of the older conventional training to solve the what if's . Some older material , pre-classic e-collar might be Training Retrievers to Handle by D L Walters as an example, not promoting the book, rather as example with problem solving. Something as simple as going to the library , look up retriever training etc. Then come back on the forum and discuss what you read about a specific problem. Keep a thick skin as there will always be a few 90 day wonders and smart answers ,but, sort through them and I am sure you will get what you are looking for. There is a wealth of experience on this forum and many more then willing to share with you.
 
#10 · (Edited)
"I wasnt trying to be critical of any author, just seems that all the books and videos I have they hint at problems that might arise during training but dont actually discuss how to go about solving them"

Most of the training material out there focuses on "avoiding" problems rather than correcting them.

That is for a reason: By following certain procedures and sequences you should not encounter most of the problems they mention.

Examples:

If Properly introduced ​to gun fire the dog will most likely not be gun shy. Proper introduction to gun fire is not a 1 or 2 day event.

If properly socialized pup should be comfortable with crate,kids,vehicles,noises,walks etc.etc.

If properly force fetched pup should not have a hard mouth & should not have no-goes and so on.

You can see where I'm going with this. The materials will teach you to avoid, or at the very least reduce you chances of incurring said problems.



To answer your question more directly you may try:

Problems and solutions
​By Danny Farmer and Judy Aycock






 
#12 ·
I went back and read your post again. Today we had a drink coffee talk dogs with a threesome of about 100 plus years judging, amateur training etc going back many years. One of the topics was the dogs of old. It was on the topic of the old field trial Goldens but Labs could be included. One of the threesome is one of the top breeders in the country with field Goldens. Again this isn't a who is more correct or more knowledgeable. It was our combined concensus of the dogs of old BB (Before Holway Barty) were tough cookies but not the sharpest tacks in the box. Of course the trials of old would be hard to fathom unless you have seen a recent Senior Hunt Test. I won a Licensed Qual in 1970 with a Golden that would have most likely as I remember now, a AKC Senior Hunt Test with a triple. In those days things like dogs that were made gunshy were very common along with not stopping to the whistle, no goes, most dogs only turned one way on the cast and many were sent on back for marks and blinds. The collar as it is used today was for punishment only .Most everything was direct pressure, dog doesn't stop to the whistle you run out to the dog grab him/her put a strap on the dog tell then to sit or in very serious cases they were known to use a shotgun with small shot at about 60 to 80 yards.Shoot over the dogs head and the pellets would fall around the dog especially for not stopping to the whistle in the water.

OK lets fast forward during our "talk about dogs" session we all agreed dogs are much smarter today, breeding, just as good bitches with titles are being bred contrary to mostly titled males in the past. The advent of the "New Wave" e-collar with smart, fast ,intelligent dogs
has made training much easier and humane then in the past.

Now as an example lets use gunshyness as a problem. In the modern world of retriever training with Field Trial and Hunt Test dogs it is almost not heard of anymore. One of the major reasons is the gunfire is introduced during the retrieve, the retrieves are much longer
then years ago the shot is farther away and the dog associates it with the prey drive of the retrieve. So the correction for it is a lost art.
Years ago there was a lot more hey , hey, then throw bumpers rather then firing blank guns. More amateurs trained thier own dogs and the standard was to make loud noises when the puppies were fed, start shooting at a distance when they ate and so forth. Take your dog to a trap range etc. The shots were much closer to the dogs in training so it was not uncommon to have a gunshy dog or a thunder shy dog. The methods were many on how to correct the problem. Food motivation, staking the dog out while other dogs worked etc.

I hope the above helps somewhat in your quest and it is just one man's opinion as an explanation.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top