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Thread: Force Fetch...Indicator of training in the future?

  1. #11
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    One of the reasons I like to force fetch my own dogs is you get to see how they respond to pressure. This is very helpful during later training.

    I agree that hoe FF goes is not always a harbinger of future training.

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  2. #12
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twall View Post
    One of the reasons I like to force fetch my own dogs is you get to see how they respond to pressure. This is very helpful during later training.

    I agree that hoe FF goes is not always a harbinger of future training.

    Tom
    No need to talk dirty this early in the morning.
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

  3. #13
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    I like one that resists me a LITTLE during FF. I have done a bunch and trhe ones that show a little independence usually turn out to have strong drive, but at the same time can be team players.
    I have had a couple that were very difficult to FF and it showed a personality trait that they were too independent. Developed into bugging, WR's, CR's at distance. Both were excellent markers.
    Got to have a balance.
    MP
    The pain of regret is much worse than the pain of hard work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WRL View Post
    So the answer to the question is?? Yes/No Maybe?
    In reality it can be all three...Yes, some dogs do just that..Usually submissive type dogs that have an ability to learn and want to be a team player....
    No, Some dogs go through a change in attitude as the FF process takes place...It will bold up a timid dog and knock the chip off the shoulders of the more defiant and self reliant dog...
    Maybe...It is an animal and they all have different abilities in the learning process...As Evan pointed out some can have a big problem when it comes to water but loves to work land .....The old stereotyped golden for example...

    As stated on the forum before " train the dog you have"...Steve S

  5. #15
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    First clf i had was super easy to FF and as soft as can be at 85 lbs. Trainability extremely high but drive was low. FF her in 2 weeks and never looked back. The second dog I had took well over 2 months, I had to wear double welders gloves and she still refused to submit "fully" and then went to a pro and he had the same issues. Very stubborn, dominant Female. Trainability tough but the drive to hunt goes way over expectations. It depends on the dog but I would say that FF does suggest the personality of the dog and where the dog see's itself in the pack. The first dog you could do anything to (from my kids to me) and she would just want lov'n. Great companion, house dog (which most dogs are 90% of the time even though we forget) and one big lover. She could mark, do doubles~maybe triple but she just didn't "jump" when the going was tough or with long days. The second dog will bite the mail man, bit me once or twice, is on a very tight leash around the kids but when you want to go hunting she is all business and will go all day.. to the point when your packing up she will start jumping and wanting you to go for more. I've seen her put multiple dogs in the kennel before she would leave the field and the pro said her drive "almost" makes up for her dominant personality (and she's the runt and only 45 lbs). I have FF other dogs also and I think FF does show personality but not necessarily the level or work that will need to go into the trainability. hope that helps.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Yup, you got it.

    Actually, the easiest dog I've ever force fetched, Chena River Wild Lady, breezed through ff. She wound up with 160ish all age points, I think.
    So, you would not wash a dog during (or slightly after) force fetch?

  7. #17
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRL View Post
    So, you would not wash a dog during (or slightly after) force fetch?
    Nope, I've washed them before force fetch and slightly afterwards. I have never washed a dog only for what I saw during force fetch though. I look at the entire package, desire, trainability, marking, and how I get along with the dog. As an amateur, I don't have to train a dog I don't like. Others I've liked a lot but they couldn't mark to my satisfaction or I couldn't get to do memory birds reliably, those are harder to decide when or if to find another home. You keep hoping they'll get it. Life is to short to try to cram a square peg into a round hole.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

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    If the dog has retrieving desire I wouldn't be too fast to wash out....If the dog was vicious during FF I probably would consider it...I would want more info on the dogs learning abilities ..How did things go during obed ...? Did you do any collar work during the obed phase..? The dogs reaction to it was ? Is the problem in FF a learning disability or a reaction to the pressure...? Steve S

  9. #19
    Senior Member DRAKEHAVEN's Avatar
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    Alot depend on how Force fetch is done IMO

    Seen some wonderfully talented dog that did not do well during or after force fetch but it smoothed out later.
    Along with plenty that NEVER recovered fully.
    Have always said, you can't build a fine piece of furniture with a sledge hammer............
    Discipline is no excuse for a lack of enthusiasm !!

  10. #20
    Super Moderator FOM's Avatar
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    I haven't FF many dogs, but have seen several at various stages and some I thought to myself "What a freakng knucklehead!" but once they struggled through and moved on they turned into some nice young dogs...I think they were successful bcause the trainer saw the whole picture and knew that a young do is just that, young.
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