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Thread: TY pile work and start of mini t

  1. #1
    Senior Member Jay-Bird's Avatar
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    Default TY pile work and start of mini t

    Well we have been working hard for a couple weeks on FTP and im getting very comfy with the way he is responding and running. This mornings session started us about 50yds aeay from the pile and finished up about 75yds away.
    Ignore the first yelp, somehow when i took the transmitter out of my pocket i hit a button. So he got a few "im sorry rubs".
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZm85Gjq1Do


    Next we moved on to his first mini t session, mind you we worked into doing two piles, y day we did left over and 2 days ago we did right over.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xg4MzLGMew


    I have worked hard to work out the issues picked up in previous posts (all me issues, not TY). Can any one offer suggestions to get him to focus in a bit more? you can see i use his name and pull the lead.

    Please keep up with the constructive criticsm it is helping me/us along greatly.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    I saw lots of things I didn't like. But first I wanted to say that there is lots to like about Ty.

    In general the camera wasn't positioned correctly so that we could see the dog or the pile. Move the camera off to the side so that we can see the dog enroute.

    In the first video it looked like Ty had a big loop in route to the pile. This needs to be corrected so that Ty runs a straight line. You can move closer and gradually move out or put a folding chair at the widest point in the loop but closer to the correct line to the pile and either one of those should straighten the line. Although it looked like he was getting better at the end.

    I don't think it is appropriate at this point in his training to be wearing a rope. I think you are using it as a crutch to correct bugging issues. And this should be corrected in other ways. The book you bought should deal with this but if not Mike Lardy's RJ articles Vol 1 does. When he doesn't look at the pile, that is looks away, step forward with a here command and then sit and send him as soon as he sits and looks. Sometimes you might have to nick on the here command. Mix some happy bumpers in. Sometimes that helps a young dog keep his focus.

    I don't think you should be sending him on his name but rather "back". But some do. This should have been dealt with in simple three handed casting by at first sending on fetch, then fetch back, then just back (on remote sit backs). Then when you started FTP sending him from remote sits on back, then slip in side send on back. All of this at first should be very close to the pile. Just a few yards, say 10-15, then work out to about 40 yds.

    In the second video it looked like Ty was taking the over casts very well. They looked a lot longer than 15-20 yds. I didn't see you mix in any back casts with the overs. Also, I think you need to mix in more freebies. When I first start teaching overs and backs on the mini T, I move up so that I am very close to the dog, put him at a remote sit position at the junction. Then teach him the three piles. Just like in simple three handed casting.

    If you are going to teach angle backs, I would work on straighting out your arm on the over casts and getting it parallel to the ground.

    When you put your hand down keep it in the same place and let the dog run out from under it.

    In general I think you are moving a little to fast and glossing over some issues. I know this is a lot but I tried to stay on the big things and not nit pick. There is lots to be proud of with Ty but you did ask for comments.
    Wayne Nutt
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    Hold your hand steady out and in front of and above the dogs nose and don't move it as the dog leaves your side... If the hand is too low it will be in the dogs line of sight...Steve S

  4. #4
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    This is a video of Hank doing the mini T similiar to what you were doing. Note how I have the camera off to the side so that you can see the dog all the way to the pile.

    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...highlight=Mini
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  5. #5
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    I agree with most of what Wayne said. Loose the rope and get that hand down lower on an over cast. I also would not be stopping and casting on every other send. I send at least 3 times straight through to the back pile before stopping and casting to the over pile. I put about twenty bumpers on my back pile and a max of two on my over piles
    I may be wrong but it sounds like you give a back then I hear the dog yip. First Id' turn the collar down one notch. It doesnt appear to me that this dog needs or should have that level of stimulation. When you send back then a nick put another back behind that nick, back nick back. This dog seems to be a little on the soft side and avoiding the pressure with the bugging and leaning on you at heal. I would like to see him running with a little more enthusiasim to the back pile. I would back off a little on the pressure and keep it fun for him, not saying dont use pressure just lighten up a little. I usually dont need to force on back by the time I start T work. I only use it occaisionally or if I see something I dont like such as the dog not putting any effort into it or slowing down at the apex anticipating the stop and over cast. Pump him up a little with some happy bumpers before starting plus a little more praise and excitement. Keep it fun!
    With all that said he looks like a nice dog and you have done well with him
    Last edited by Steve Shaver; 01-13-2013 at 07:45 AM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    On your Pile work:

    More sends from remote sit, front finish,, than sends from your side.. (only occational side send)
    Think straight line to pile,,,, and good sit at front finish..,, and a happy dog...

    Get him use to seeing a "back" cast with your arm, and practice on sending him with just a verbal (back)

    Dont growl your send command (Back), just say the word, and give praise when good effort is given after a force.

    Ty looks really good....

    I wouldnt run "T" till issues with Pile work are ironed out. Good front finish,, stright line to back pile, good momentum,, gradually working to distance of 100 yrds. Slow down,, Fix issues NOW
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 01-13-2013 at 08:26 AM.
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    Senior Member Jay-Bird's Avatar
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    Awesome.
    Thanx for all the feed back, it helps me alot as there is no club in my area and its my first go at training a dog properly from start to finish.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Erik Nilsson's Avatar
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    JMO-One thing I noticed was your hands are down at your side when you prepare to give a cast, get ready to give the cast while your dog is going away. You can give him the time to focus on you but you will avoid any unnecessary arm movements. Looks like he is a nice boy, keep it up!
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  9. #9
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Bird View Post
    Awesome.
    Thanx for all the feed back, it helps me alot as there is no club in my area and its my first go at training a dog properly from start to finish.
    I will also add,:

    I admire your courage to post a video of your progress on a internet board..
    I know its not an easy thing to do..

    Keep at it!!

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  10. #10
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Put your hands together on your chest while the dog is going away from you and before he turns. Look at my video. Sometimes I forget too.

    Lots of freebies but don't get in a rut: sometimes three, sometimes two and sometimes just one between casts. It is amazing how quickly the dogs can pickup on a routine.

    One of the biggest constructive comments I get is that I figit (move too much before I cast). I noticed that you stand perfectly still which is good.

    Good luck with Ty. Looking forward to more videos.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

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