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View Poll Results: How many of you frequently repeat in your daily training?

Voters
101. You may not vote on this poll
  • On Multiple Marks?

    7 6.93%
  • Just on key, or missed marks?

    35 34.65%
  • Blinds?

    15 14.85%
  • Never or rarely repeat?

    28 27.72%
  • For "train wrecks", and on occasional contrary/school blind

    16 15.84%
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Thread: Do you repeat often?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Default Do you repeat often?

    Just curious, how many of you frequently repeat marks or blinds as a part of your daily training routine?

    If so, how do you judge what you repeat? How many times?, etc.

    Evan

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lisa Van Loo's Avatar
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    This is probably one of those "it depends" things.

    I repeat concepts, not actual marks or blinds.

    Lisa
    "Go sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here." - Jack Nicholson in As Good As It Gets

    http://www.chessieinfo.net

  3. #3
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Van Loo
    This is probably one of those "it depends" things.

    Lisa
    Sure it is, at least for most trainers. But still, most who repeat as a routine part of their work have rationale for it, and often only repeat certain portions of their work, or under a set of specific circumstances. That's why I asked, If so, how do you judge what you repeat? How many times?, etc.

    Nearly all of us repeat during basics, don't we?

    Evan

  4. #4
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    I didn't vote 'cause what I do wasn't one of the choices.

    I'll repeat a blind often if we fail it or have to many whistles. I'll often stop them near where we had a cast on the first running and give them a cast even if they are pretty much on line.

    I repeat most marks I get a hunt on. I'll repeat the two in conflict as singles. If it was retired the first time (usually) then I have them retire adn I hold the dog on the line until the gunner is retired.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  5. #5
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    I "repeat" as a matter of course, failed marks with unique situations and/or conditions that are difficult to replicate.
    I also often repeat,as stay out marks, failed retired marks with extremely challenging factors.
    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  6. #6
    Senior Member Lisa Van Loo's Avatar
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    Yes, the basis of drills, patterns, etc. is repetition.

    What I have noticed with Gopher is she falls very much into her comfort zone when she repeats. So much so, that she comes to expect the repeat. It's comfort food for the brain. Transition has been hell, at least until I figured out the root of her problem. She doesn't generalize well. It forced ME to find many, many different training areas. I can give her fresh marks and fresh blinds on a different property every day, which she needs, while still working on the same basic concept (crosswinds, for instance, or holding a sidehill).

    Somewhere else, I saw the number 80%. You want 80% success on something before moving on to the next thing. Don't know where this number originated. The idea being if you work toward 100%, you will bore your dog into catatonia, while less than that, and the dog may not have the foundation it needs for the next step.

    I use repeats when teaching multiples. Throw the memory bird and run as a single, then run it back as a multiple. Also use this when introducing a new concept (such as short-long, retiring guns, etc.). With Gopher, I find it has been well worth my while to push the boundaries of her comfort zone (or maybe I am expanding her comfort zone). So I repeat NOTHING. If she has trouble, I will either have the gunner help, or I will handle. The more I rock her world, the more confident she gets.

    IMHO, dogs who naturally generalize their lessons well learn best with repeats. You lose nothing, and build the dog up. Dogs like Gopher, who does not generalize well, need to learn to handle what you throw at them, whenever and wherever. I started teaching fine-angle entries last week. Sending her to the same pile, but at longer distances and sharper angles. Just moved the pile to a different place each day, a different piece of property. So, we repeated within the lesson, but generalized across the week. NOT how most people do it, but with her, I truncate repeats and move things around, to avoid developing a pattern.

    probably has nothing to do with your question. Just my musings. I finally figured out (just this morning) that her no-go problem in the field and her stay problem in obedience trials is the SAME problem. She makes me think, that is for sure.

    Lisa
    "Go sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here." - Jack Nicholson in As Good As It Gets

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  7. #7
    Senior Member Keith Farmer's Avatar
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    I repeat cheating marks if the dog cheated. I sometimes repeat marks where the dog gave into factors and had to be helped or handled. I don't repeat marks where a hunt occured.

    I have found that some of the dogs, as Lisa stated, come to rely on the repeats instead of working hard for themselves. My approach is to throw difficult marks as singles and teach the concept or introduce the factors in this manner. The singles allow the dogs to focus directly on the mark at hand without the memory issue. When I want to increase the difficulty I usually have a difficult mark thrown as a memory in a double situation.

    All this is straight from Lardy and it seems to work well for him...why would I deviate?
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1 NKJV)... 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1-4NKJV)

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  8. #8
    Senior Member Polock's Avatar
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    Evan, I too will repeat cheaty marks or concepts being taught. If the dawg hunts the AOL that's all I need to see, no repeat.
    It's those the need BB help or are handled that I repeat the mark.
    Throw a lot of singles to get the idea across and I too use the repeat mark in a double mark situation.
    See Yunz later,
    Dan Kotarski
    Cut-N-Shoot Retrievers

    BABY STEPS, Baby Steps, baby steps.........Repetition..Consistency..Focus
    TEACH and BUILD! Then BUILD on what ya TEACH!

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  9. #9
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    Repeating marks for me is a matter of:Why,how and/or where did this dog have a problem? If the dog simply didn't mark, as they sometimes do, I would not repeat.
    Certain terrains IMHO could merit a repeat as single. Whereas concepts may require a repeat of the entire multiple. In both of these situation I'm not improving the dog's marking ability but only trying to teach him/her how to successfully push thru this specific idea.

    Blinds I often repeat when first introducing "cold blinds". IMHO at this stage it can help build confidence/drive in lining and casting. Experienced dogs will only repeat if there where some real big problems that required blood,sweat and tears form both of us.

    Tim

  10. #10
    Senior Member Chris Kingrea's Avatar
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    Default

    I took the liberty to add an option to the poll, so I could vote accurately.

    Actually I'm not sure it jives with your assertive question of "frequently in daily training." To that, I would say rare.

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