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Thread: Stop whistle command US Style?

  1. #11
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    I saw that. I hope he ignores it and doesn't waste his time debating it.

    I thought it was cool. He never presented it as a hunt test blind, nor as a cold blind. He also never advised us as to what direction the wind is blowing.

    I think that the "explanation" made too many assumptions and was extreme.

    I've judged a lot of hunt tests in my days and I'd not state that if this were a hunt test blind of any venue, that it would or wouldn't "pass" based upon the video as presented.

    It is a cool lab doing cool work on cool grounds, fetching a canvas dummy.

    Chris
    Did you read the posts in the thread that the quotes came from, and listen to the dialog being said in the video?

  2. #12
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Chris

    I agree with your commentary. I want to say beautiful dogs, obedient dogs, and good dog work.

    And polmaise, if and when you come here you are welcome to do some roughshooting with me. There's another retriever event. Sorry, my spaniel is retired.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  3. #13
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Did you read the posts in the thread that the quotes came from, and listen to the dialog being said in the video?
    Dude, I have dogs to go walk in the snow and firewood to bring in to load the woodstove. The dogs' tails are wagging and it's a beautiful New Year.

    If he doesn't want to blow a stop whistle, who cares?

  4. #14
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    If he doesn't want to blow a stop whistle, who cares?
    He wants to know why we have to.

    That's it.

    I certainly don't care how he handles his dog, what floats his boat, or trips his trigger.
    I was just trying to answer his question.

  5. #15
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    He wants to know why we have to.

    That's it.

    I certainly don't care how he handles his dog, what floats his boat, or trips his trigger.
    I was just trying to answer his question.
    Woodstove is loaded. Dogs are drinking water and probably going to go crash on the floor (except for Bus...I haven't caught him sleeping all week).

    I did not see this guy ask to critique the lab video and indicate if it would pass a US hunt test as a blind. I personally think his question was not answered very directly. IF I'm your co-judge, you may be working hard to convince me why we don't see this dog at the water. After all, if our goal is to reward dogs for good hunting and game recovery skills, (meaning our goal is not just to try and find reasons to "fail" dogs) we'll figure out if he can handle or not on the water blind.

    Chris

  6. #16
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    I've judged a few blinds in FTs and from what I could see you could not run a smoother blind than running straight to it and digging it out of cover at the end. Looked like strong wind,steep terrain, and thick cover to negotiate. Nice!

  7. #17
    Senior Member Dos Patos's Avatar
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    I would give love to own that dog.Great job Polmaise.
    FC AFC Slider/Junie

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmaise View Post
    I thought it pertinent to start my own thread,rather than possibly confuse or de-rail the original one where my question arose.
    ...
    Here is my 'quandary'...Having a dog that has not been FF ,or CC, and NOT been trained in 'Positive only', or clicker
    A theoretical 'snappy/crisp' SIT to stop whistle is achieved
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-fqrQ96Y3Q

    When the 'stop' whistle has been used in training to condition the dog to 'take a line that has been ,ie keep on truckin,or the stop' will tell you that you have gone off line'?..therefore 'your desire'(retrieve)is less forthcoming like we conditioned you to want?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jZ6MZcHp10

    Can you see my quandary?....Or ...Is it really necessary,to do 'all the drills' in a programme?...to achieve the retrieve/hunt game.
    .........
    I would welcome Mr Voigt's opinion on the 'stop command',or any other's?

    Thanks for those great videos. Love the scenery and the dog work is excellent.

    I think we are talking two different training styles! Whatever gets you to achieve your goal use it! When I say back to my dog I mean keep straight on that line I have sent you. If he deviates I blow the stop whistle and cast him toward the bird. It is just a different way of doing it. Both styles get the job done.

    Thanks again for posting the videos.
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83047
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83051



    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
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  9. #19
    Senior Member crackerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmaise View Post
    Can you see my quandary?...
    Aye, my man, you are one smooth operator. You've gone and wangled all these fine invites to the greatest country on earth which you can reaffirm for all them been left behind once you're staying somewheres other than holed up in a pup tent in my backyard.

    And...And! You've now got the opening for importing the Polmaise Cup to these shores and "Americanizing" it like you've wanted to all along:

    One Shooter O̶n̶e̶ ̶S̶p̶a̶n̶i̶e̶l̶ ̶O̶n̶e̶ ̶R̶e̶t̶r̶i̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ One Boykin

    Brilliant! Better'n a bicycle kick by the Glorious Jambos!

    MG

  10. #20
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies guy’s,
    Maybe I should have left the camera running? For some to, show the retriever clip?
    The second dog in this pair of 18 month old Bitches in training
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf2sTmOyxr4
    Chris, Thanks for your comments! The video clips were not put up to ask for critique ,or to show which is best or not.
    It was a training day with a mate, a newcomer to the sport,(he was the guy filming with his dog) who was embarking on his first dog and his first outing in the field . We were therefore ‘practicing’ the likely scenario of a retrieve often asked of a dog on a Scottish Grouse moor! For those that have never seen or been on one, they can be featureless miles of undulating hills and bogs with absolutely no reference for the dog such as a mark or even a tree, or fence post . To answer also your question about the wind Terrain and situation? All the dogs were in the truck before we set up a pile (4 dummies) over the crest of the hill, The Helper-camera man set these out and took a route out to the right and downwind from our start position (so as to not lay any ‘footscent’ on the line to the dummies) So the dogs were being asked to go out in a direction with no reference mark? And from the position/sight picture of the dog it only can see a featureless wall of hill in front of it.
    In the ‘gully’, lowest point of the ground is a Scottish Burn’, (small water course,of which the dog is well capable of jumping over without swimming) The wind where we were standing was coming from our 5 o’clock position (you can see this in the clip with the white grass next to us)..However,the wind in the Gully’ was actually coming from 9 o’clock (left to right)!,,,,and at the top of the ridge the wind was ‘fiercely’ coming over that lip from 11 o’clock !
    All this into account, you may start to think I am ‘defending’ the actions of the dog?..Nope!
    The original clip was shown (in my best way to illustrate/help the original question) without hours of typing text (for my one finger)!
    Now here is part of my quandary?..In this second clip the dog required direction from the handler,by use of the ‘stop’ whistle (because the dog was ‘’going off line’’) Demonstrating handling and control on a blind!....But then we are ultimately training the dogs for ‘trials’ which is on live game and in the shooting field we are looking for that dog to find game!...and our job as handlers is merely put that dog in the best position to find that game by the quickest and most direct route (much like I admire your’e American straight lines)
    So the dog in this second clip, didn’t sit on the stop!...But it was crisp, and it did take direction!
    A good friend of mine Tom Smith (You may well know him Chris) won the 2001 UK Retriever Championship with FTCH Craighorn Bracken, The Video of that Championship showed that he never blew the stop whistle Once!!..yet the dog had a few blinds to retrieve? (ps,One of the dogs in the clips are it’s granddaughter)..

    ‘Copterdoc’, I welcome your comments, of which they deserve a detailed reply, and you are correct in that I am not saying you can’t get a snappy sit’ on stop command with or without e-collar. Blinds do demonstrate control! However,I was showing (that over here) we are looking for that control to have been achieved in training to show/teach the dog to be confident on Total blind retrieves when cast by the handler. Some (ime) don’t have that crisp sit!..but you they can and should have a ‘crisp stop’!
    Crackerd knows me of old’, and would agree I have never been one that was not afraid to put their head above the parapet’.
    I don’t have the best in the world! But I want to have the best ,like every one else?...I already know what is required over here, and would never condone or criticise what you guy’s do over there.
    I just wan’t to learn and understand much of what you do, and if these techniques and methods can be adopted or utilised to better my dogs then brilliant!..But as you know we ‘(us brits over here) are under different restraint’s ?, and as my Grandfather taught me “You can only Piss with the one you got”.
    ……………………………..
    Please don’t any of you guy’s think I’m looking for something anything else than ‘dialogue/debate/understanding, and knowledge that can probably help both me and my dogs or the dogs that come here for training.
    I have been a ‘rough shooter’ (that would be wildfowling/and or upland) shooting and hunting with dogs for 35 years, I have done Trials and tests with Retrievers and Spaniels (except Boykins MG) for over 15 years, and I am still learning at the age of 53 ,and more importantly still yearning to learn.
    The thread maybe taking a twist, from the original question?...and I apologise, but I feel it had to be answered based on the grateful comments.
    ………….
    Now, Back to thread
    “Here is my 'quandary'...Having a dog that has not been FF ,or CC, and NOT been trained in 'Positive only', or clicker
    A theoretical 'snappy/crisp' SIT to stop whistle is achieved”
    I know how I do it!...How would You?
    ...
    ps, sorry for the late reply?...I was out shooting on a walk up day.
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

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