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inexperienced trainer, NEED HELP! -

8K views 29 replies 11 participants last post by  loganbh 
#1 ·
Hi,

I have a black lab named Nelli that is about a year and three months old. She is a very smart dog as most are and I have been working with her since she was about six months old. However, my inexperience and lack of knowledge created some bad habits.

Nelli is one of the most energetic and athletic dogs I have ever seen. She marks perfectly, has to be in the water, and will retrieve anything ON HER NAME. I can also shoot around her without any problems.

Here are her/my problems.
-She retrieves, but when returning will run circles around me before returning to my side (like its a game). Also, if there is water near, on dry retrieves she makes a point to jump into the water before returning. How can I fix this??
-She is very anxious and just wants to go go go!! How do I calm her down without taking away from her desire??
-"HERE" is my command for her to sit by my left leg, which she does well, however she jumps and turns way up in the air in the process.. How do I fix that?

This may sound like a bunch of hooplah, I just do not know where to start!! Please Help!

 
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#3 ·
It's really too soon to worry a great deal. This is pretty typical. Keep her on a check cord or lightweight rope to assure that she comes when called on retrieve. Separately from retrieving you should be doing obedience work fairly passively. Treat training works very well to establish fundamental commands prior to getting more formal. In a month or so you can e-collar condition to Here, and that will help in all ways.

At about 6 months of age assess her maturity to begin formal Basics.

The components of Basics in order

1) “Here”
2) “Heel & Sit”
3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands “Back”
7) Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the go, stop, cast functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. Also includes De-bolting
8) Single tee
9) Double tee
10) Water force, Water tee with Swim-by

Are you familiar with these processes?

Evan
 
#15 ·
It's really too soon to worry a great deal. This is pretty typical. Keep her on a check cord or lightweight rope to assure that she comes when called on retrieve. Separately from retrieving you should be doing obedience work fairly passively. Treat training works very well to establish fundamental commands prior to getting more formal. In a month or so you can e-collar condition to Here, and that will help in all ways.

At about 6 months of age assess her maturity to begin formal Basics.

The components of Basics in order

1) “Here”
2) “Heel & Sit”
3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands “Back”
7) Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the go, stop, cast functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. Also includes De-bolting
8) Single tee
9) Double tee
10) Water force, Water tee with Swim-by

Are you familiar with these processes?

Evan
I am Not sure what the single double triple tees are and water force, water tee with swim by.
 
#5 ·
Well guess the first question myself and others here on the forum are gonna ask, would be which training materials have used, if any? Sounds like some time on a checkcord would fix many of these problem.
 
#29 ·
I missed this the first time around, but this is an excellent piece of advice also. Get around some experienced folks. They will help you a ton. Joining Charleston RC was one of the best things I did when I got my first dog
 
#19 ·
Bill, not a direct poke at you....

Grammar, English, Police: It would be nice if folks would "credit" the originator of the quote they are quoting.

We see this a lot on RTF.

Bored on a cold Saturday night regards :p
 
#9 ·
Sounds as if most of your issues relate to obedience. If I were you, I'd pick a program. Smartworks, Lardy, Fowl Dawgs, Duck Dog Basics are all good ones. Don't panic about her age. I didn't start formal training with my first dog until after her 1st birthday, a year later she had her HRCH, so don't feel rushed.
 
#10 ·
I have used a sport dog e- collar and her obedience when the collar is on is stellar!! maybe the transmitter isn't working right as it doesn't seem to reach a long distance. therefore, at times a command may be "HERE, nick, HERE" she doesn't respond as well if far away. I used a check cord when she was six months old but found it to be a pain and by guiding her back to me she found it to be more of a tug of war game so I resorted to over praising when she came back to me. I have a few bumpers and a few ducks made by Dokken. I also use a super pro dummy launcher by DT systems.
 
#24 ·
I have used a sport dog e- collar and her obedience when the collar is on is stellar!! maybe the transmitter isn't working right as it doesn't seem to reach a long distance. therefore, at times a command may be "HERE, nick, HERE" she doesn't respond as well if far away. I used a check cord when she was six months old but found it to be a pain and by guiding her back to me she found it to be more of a tug of war game so I resorted to over praising when she came back to me. I have a few bumpers and a few ducks made by Dokken. I also use a super pro dummy launcher by DT systems.
When using a rope jerk instead of a steady pull...It sounds like your amount of pressure used was not enough to get the point across....Praise is a powerful tool when used correctly but when mis used ( over used and not at proper times for proper behavior ) it becomes worthless as a tool ... Collar use..If she understands the here command when the collar is on , why take it off..? This only causes problems with the dog becoming collar wise and developing two sets of behaviors ..One when it is on and the other when it is off...We create the problem ...They are just reacting to their environment...They all understand or know when we put that thing on them...The worst thing you can have is a collar that is unreliable..Make sure it is working as intended...Steve S
 
#11 ·
Thanks Everyone for your suggestions!! Im going to check out the different programs and stick to one.

Here's another question! I have heard from different things from different people as far as how often to work with your dog. some say once in the morning once at night for no longer than 15-20 minutes, and some say only a few times a week because you can over work your dog and may cause them to lose desire. Any opinions??

And in reply to Shawn White, I agree that it is a good thing, its just that when she needs to come back I don't want her playing in the water.
 
#17 ·
Here's another question! I have heard from different things from different people as far as how often to work with your dog. some say once in the morning once at night for no longer than 15-20 minutes, and some say only a few times a week because you can over work your dog and may cause them to lose desire. Any opinions??

10 -15 minutes of obed work at one time can become boring ..Watch the dog , it will tell you when the sessions are getting too long....Keep the lessons short and do 2 or 3 times a day ....Loosing desire is usually associated with too much pressure in training ...Keep the dogs attitude up and wanting to interact with you and you will not have any problems ...Steve S
 
#12 · (Edited)
Hi,

I have a black lab named Nelli that is about a year and three months old. She is a very smart dog as most are and I have been working with her since she was about six months old. However, my inexperience and lack of knowledge created some bad habits.

Nelli is one of the most energetic and athletic dogs I have ever seen. She marks perfectly, has to be in the water, and will retrieve anything ON HER NAME. I can also shoot around her without any problems.

Here are her/my problems.
-She retrieves, but when returning will run circles around me before returning to my side (like its a game). Also, if there is water near, on dry retrieves she makes a point to jump into the water before returning. How can I fix this??
-She is very anxious and just wants to go go go!! How do I calm her down without taking away from her desire??"HERE" is my command for her to sit by my left leg,which she does well, she jumps and turns way up in the air in the process.. How can I fix that?

This may sound like a bunch of hooplah, I just do not know where to start!! Please Help!


First off, the first two problems you mention are both fixable with the teaching what your here command means ...Use a rope to establish the proper response from a short distance away ...The second ,jumping into position beside you , can be nipped in the bud by doing some finish work on lead... same as the first two...
Both are resolved in one simple drill...don't worry about the dog jumping in the water on a return ...It will disappear as soon as the dog responds to your here command ....Steve S
 
#14 ·
Your problems are all as a result of weak basic ob. Get a good program and start over with "Here" and work forward. Sounds like you have a good little dog there so make the best of it. I like the simple approach of Chris Akins, Duck Dog Basic's series of DVD's. I know there are more advanced materials out there and the Smart Work series by Evan Grahams is one that guys use. He is also on here allot with help, even though I think he missed the age of your pup when he responded above. In my opinion The Lardy system is great but to involved for a "newbee" and with out lots of experienced help you might get lost. Just my opinion. Duckdon
 
#26 ·
loganbh


I would like to say that you have gotten excellent advice. I would also like to add that I had experienced problems that are identical to yours. In fact identical in every aspect. The root of my problem, as I saw it, was 1) my dog is water crazy and a real firebreather and 2) taking the dog off the long line too soon and 3) addressing the problem inappropriately which allowed the behavior to continue and become a habit. I solved my problem when I retaught the here command.

You say you are inexperienced. Find a training group that can help you. Also, make sure that your obedience is solid. Teach with no distractions, add distractions, then take the behavior to several locations to generalize it.
 
#30 ·
Evan

I am out of the loop on Tees completely. please explain.

also, I took Nelli on her first hunt yesterday to see how these behaviors would relay in the field. I took things very slow and let her attitude determine the pace. I found that I need to distinguish between decoys and birds a little more. Fortunately, she knows how to use her nose well. She retrieved her first bird (a merganser) which was still alive and gave her a chase. It dove on her creating a 70 yard deep water retrieve, but she got to it perfectly. Upon returning to me, she stopped to smell each and every decoy, then proceeded to return the bird to hand. Later on in the day, nelli and I were out of the blind. My brother shot two blue wing teal in a deep pond. I brought her back to blind retrieve the birds. (no formal training on blind retrieves) she performed perfectly, swimming past the decoys and returning the birds to hand.

One thing that bothered me throughout the hunt was her constant anxiousness and whining. Is this something I should worry about? If so, how do I fix it?
 
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