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Thread: Starting pistols .... why?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    Chris,

    Although never an e collar trainer, nor ever wishing to be so now or in the future, I did what I could to protest the banning of their use in Wales, unfortunately, not to much avail.
    You, Polmaise, and a bunch of others would probably think it's cool.
    I can't speak for Robert, but I've always said that if I ran up against a problem that I couldn't tackle from my own resources, I'd quite cheerfully use a collar. And yes, I do own one, and it's remained in its box unused for the last six years. If ever I wanted to use it I merely have to walk a couple of miles over the hill or drive a few more round the road into England. At one point I can swim the dog across the river Severn, give him a couple of legal zaps, and recall him to the nearside bank where he'd be safe ... how crazy is that?

    Having said that I'm temperamentally unsuited to e collar training; I've never hidden the fact that I grew up in the days of brutal dog training and was once part of it. My personal journey from those days has been just that, my personal journey. It's taken me to places that many in here think little of, but what do you know, it doesn't bother me a bit! It's sometimes forgotten that dog training science has advanced since those days, collar or no collar.

    I've had a really cruel trot with my own dogs recently. Last year I had three regular workers and one old boy, mostly retired, who could enjoy a warm afternoon on a shoot; tomorrow I've got just one to go out with and nothing else. Of course I'm looking to get some new pups into the kennel, but the thought of using an e collar isn't even on the radar. I won't hit a dog, zap a dog, or do anything else other than the things that please me.

    Your mileage as they say, may differ.

    Eug
    Last edited by Colonel Blimp; 01-06-2013 at 01:58 PM.
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

  2. #12
    Senior Member crackerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp View Post
    I won't hit a dog, zap a dog, or do anything else other than the things that please me.
    Eug, a training pistol probably would please you if you saved a lot of bob using it instead of expending a ton of money on shotshells, especially poppers, or shotgun blanks. We don't use them for aesthetics, we use them to get the dog's attention at 350-400 yards (or closer). Ideally every gun station would use shotguns for better simulation of a trial (or test) - sometimes it just ain't feasible or you might train with misers whose pockets have been stitched shut since they stuffed their first dime into them...

    MG

  3. #13
    Senior Member shawninthesticks's Avatar
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    I prefer these compared to pistols or shotguns with blanks. The pro I train with has had his 2 years this spring and it has been tough as nails (Strapped to a 4 wheeler most of it's life),dependable and I'd guess that he has used 4 bottles of map gas total and has never had a bumper put in it .It's only use has been for shot simulator ,then throw real birds.

    High inital cost,but no worry about how many shots are left in the revolver or miss fires from the shot gun.

    I'll save my $ and due without a pistol until I can afford my own,my 9 year old son can run it no problem.
    Shawn White

    HR Big Creek Retrievers Independence Day JH QAA "Indy "

  4. #14
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp View Post
    Chris,

    Although never an e collar trainer, nor ever wishing to be so now or in the future, I did what I could to protest the banning of their use in Wales, unfortunately, not to much avail.
    I can't speak for Robert, but I've always said that if I ran up against a problem that I couldn't tackle from my own resources, I'd quite cheerfully use a collar. And yes, I do own one, and it's remained in its box unused for the last six years. If ever I wanted to use it I merely have to walk a couple of miles over the hill or drive a few more round the road into England. At one point I can swim the dog across the river Severn, give him a couple of legal zaps, and recall him to the nearside bank where he'd be safe ... how crazy is that?

    Having said that I'm temperamentally unsuited to e collar training; I've never hidden the fact that I grew up in the days of brutal dog training and was once part of it. My personal journey from those days has been just that, my personal journey. It's taken me to places that many in here think little of, but what do you know, it doesn't bother me a bit! It's sometimes forgotten that dog training science has advanced since those days, collar or no collar.

    I've had a really cruel trot with my own dogs recently. Last year I had three regular workers and one old boy, mostly retired, who could enjoy a warm afternoon on a shoot; tomorrow I've got just one to go out with and nothing else. Of course I'm looking to get some new pups into the kennel, but the thought of using an e collar isn't even on the radar. I won't hit a dog, zap a dog, or do anything else other than the things that please me.

    Your mileage as they say, may differ.

    Eug

    Fair enough Eug,

    I just find it interesting that different laws, in different lands, focus more heavily on one area and more lightly on another.

    I've found the e-collar to be a wonderful extension of the leash, that extends farther than I can see and can't wrap around trees. Its application has become so much more than just a last resort to "cure" a tough problem.

    I totally and fully respect the training choices that you or anyone else makes. As long as it is fair and reasonable for the animal, the trainer should have full range to train in a manner fit for him and his canine student.

    You have hit upon a very fair point. If one chooses to use an e-collar, they must check their temper before ever starting a training session. The ease with which a correction can be issued can really get ugly if the tool is abused.

    Enjoy!

    Chris

  5. #15
    Senior Member greg magee's Avatar
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    In Pennsylvania, it is illegal to train a dog with a long gun.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    MG

    Mike, I've never used a popper or a blank in my life. I do have a couple of old beaten up guns that I use for dog training, but it's always full loads, as often as not with the Springers on live game. I do however have a 12 gauge fitted up with a full length moderator (uses sub sonic loads) for golf course assassination jobs!

    As regards the cost, if the price of 50 cheapo import squibs put me off I'd give up the whole game! Not even the price of a bag of feed.

    greg magee posted
    In Pennsylvania, it is illegal to train a dog with a long gun.
    Man, that's the land of the free? Do you really go into the field with a dog that's never had a bird shot over him in training? Gravy Booby.

    Eug
    Last edited by Colonel Blimp; 01-06-2013 at 03:15 PM.
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

  7. #17
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Having as many tools in the box has always been a safe bet for me!
    I may not use them every day,or even never with the one dog!..But it sure is handy', when individual parts of the training occur.
    I suppose,it would also depend on where you sit' with regards ''What has worked for you in the past'' ?...which brings certain handler/trainers to stick with what they have had success with?
    ...........
    Alway's ,been one of them that looks at what could be achieved for the dog,rather than what the dog can achieve with what is available.
    ..........
    Restraints and legislation,along with 'What is the ''Norm''? '..can also be an influence to what/why/how ,individuals use the tools at their disposal.
    .....
    I have a 3KVA Generator in the cellar which is over 5 years old, Two years ago (over here in UK) we were hit with the worst winter for 25 years,and we are far off the main track.
    Used it for the first time and it was a 'god send'!.....Haven't used it since ! thank god!..but I ain't selling it!
    ......
    There are over 30 dog's per year come through here for various training
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  8. #18
    Senior Member Tim McGarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg magee View Post
    In Pennsylvania, it is illegal to train a dog with a long gun.
    Greg, What law states that we cant use a long gun to train dogs in PA??? I'm not testing you, sincere question here.
    Tim McGarry Jr
    AKC Retriever Hunt Test Judge # 95104

  9. #19
    Senior Member John Lash's Avatar
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    Tim,

    Page 32 of the Hunting and trapping digest:

    A person may not carry a rifle, shotgun or bow and arrows while training dogs.
    John Lash

    "If you run Field Trials, you learn to swallow your disappointment quickly."

    "Field trials are not a game for good dogs. They're for great dogs with great training." E. Graham

  10. #20
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Lash View Post
    Tim,

    Page 32 of the Hunting and trapping digest:

    A person may not carry a rifle, shotgun or bow and arrows while training dogs.
    Well, lets ask a different way. Is it legal for your dog to retrieve for you if you are out "exterminating feral pigeons"?
    Bill Davis

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