Ecollar or Not to ecollar

[YJSONLY]

I am researching training dvds and techniques and want some opinions on this matter? This will be my first gun dog and will be a meat dog. Any use for an ecollar?

Also other training DVDS beside Hillman and Graham? Remember this is my first go at this....

[John Lash]

Find someone to train with that knows what to do. If you use the collar properly your dog will be better for it. If used improperly you will get no benefit, or worse. If you are dedicated and learn what to do you will be fine. Many first time trainers aren't all that dedicated...

[YJSONLY]

I have trained a dog before several years ago. Self taught (nothing major sit, stay, come, pull) Pull you ask....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTn9xrUDYHA
granted this was a terrible technique that we did fix. He snatched verses pulling slow out of the hole. I have the drive just not the knowledge..

[BonMallari]

this is coming from a non E collar person

Unless you have a good mentor to train with you will probably be better off training with an E collar, because your learning curve will be quicker, and there is more info out there on how to train with one than without one

There is nothing more valuable that to learn from some qualified person, and use videos and books as reference materials...and even though this may stir the ire of many on this board...you can't train a dog from a video/book..BUT you can learn the theory and process needed to train the dog from the book and video

[DarrinGreene]

Depends entirely on what you expect out of a gun dog. I have friends that want a dog to break and don't care if it will run blinds. In that case, not much benefit to the e collar.

If you're like most people around here and want a steady dog that runs a pretty good blind, then the e collar provides a timing advantage you just can't get by any other means.

If you want to move through the basics of building blind retrieves quickly and efficiently, there's really no better tool. You can do the work without one, but it is a much longer process by definition, since you can't re-enforce commands at a distance in an effective timely fashion.

As was stated the collar is just a tool and it brings with it the advantage of effective, scale-able and timely re-enforcement at very long distances.

[RookieTrainer]

There is nothing more valuable that to learn from some qualified person, and use videos and books as reference materials...and even though this may stir the ire of many on this board...you can't train a dog from a video/book..BUT you can learn the theory and process needed to train the dog from the book and video

This X100. I have practically read the ink out of the Lardy materials that I got when I got my dog, and darn near watched all the watching out of the TRT series videotapes. They both helped tremendously, if only because (i) you get a lot of vocabulary and (ii) you can at least see some approximation of what a drill is supposed to look like.

But nothing beats having your boots on the ground with somebody who knows what he or she is doing and has been down that road before. A good training group is invaluable as well.

[polmaise]

Well , I was advised to 'look closely' at Lardy and the the training programme/ethos and was/did get one thing that 'inspired me'?
Here is a quote from a discussion with the man himself:
RJ: Do you recommend using the electric collar for basic obedience and
.field work?
LARDY: I do not recommend using it if a person is only going to use the
dog for very simple tasks, if you only want your dog to be obedient in the
general sense - to be a good citizen, or if your hunting involves only very
simple retrieves and not many of them. I don't think it's worth the time and
effort to go through a proper collar program because you can't use the collar
haphazardly. Using the collar correctly takes quite a bit of work on the
trainer's part, and there are plenty of ways to teach general obedience and
simple field work without a collar. Generally, in my own collar program,
we don't start a dog until he's eight-months to a year old, long after he's
been taught all his basic obedience and has been doing lots of retrieves, he's
almost steady, and can do singles and doubles. A point I'd like to make is
that you don't teach a dog anything with a collar. There's a misconception
that somehow the collar is a method. The collar is not a training method -
it's a tool. A lot of the training methods that I use in what some people call
a "complete collar program" are a lot of the same training techniques that
have been used for decades. The collar is used to enforce commands after
you have taught them conventionally.

[Tom. P.]

Polmaise answered any question regarding the use of ecollars using Mike Lardys quotes! This being Your first Dog the temptation is present to fix any problem with the collar! You made a great choice asking here at RTF. You cant go wrong following the advice already given. Good luck with Your Dog

[YJSONLY]

Thank you for all the info.... I know there are opinions on everything..... But I appreciate the reasoning (whether it is true or false or opinionated ) That way I can base MY decision off of it..... Thank you all.