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Thread: ... energy prices will necessarily soar

  1. #1
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Default ... energy prices will necessarily soar

    Promise kept.
    From the NY Times
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/20/bu...lWUPchI8GlUJfA&

    A total of 55 plants, including Big Sandy, have closed or have announced plans to shut down, according to a count by the Sierra Club. That will leave 395 coal-burning plants in the United States, compared with 522 in 2010, according to the Sierra Club.
    In May, the power company withdrew a plan to spent $1 billion to retrofit Big Sandy so that it could continue to operate. But that would have required a 31 percent increase in electricity rates for eastern Kentucky residents.

    On Wednesday, A.E.P. announced that it would close both of the coal-burning furnaces at Big Sandy in 2015, but left open the possibility that one of the units would be retrofitted to use natural gas. Area residents, if the Kentucky Public Service Commission approves the plan, would see an 8 percent increase in their electricity rates — to replace Big Sandy’s production with electricity from West Virginia — much less than the earlier plan.
    A double whammy for KY: electricity increases 8% while the economy of the area takes a heavy hit.
    Mr. Adkins said the repercussions in eastern Kentucky will last for decades, adding that local hotels, trucking companies, and even schools, would be adversely affected by the shutdown.
    Luke Popovich, a spokesman for the National Mining Association, said that there remained hope that the price of natural gas would rise in the coming year, making coal more competitive. He said surging demand in India and China could help replace declining domestic sales.
    “We have the most of the fuel — coal — that the rest of world wants the most of,” he said.
    So as the US decreases its carbon footprint ... China and India will take up the slack ... and the people in KY will just turn off the lights and turn down the thermostats.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Promise kept.
    From the NY Times
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/20/bu...lWUPchI8GlUJfA&

    A double whammy for KY: electricity increases 8% while the economy of the area takes a heavy hit.

    So as the US decreases its carbon footprint ... China and India will take up the slack ... and the people in KY will just turn off the lights and turn down the thermostats.
    And now for the rest of the story...


    http://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/2...enemy/(page)/1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    And now for the rest of the story...


    http://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/2...enemy/(page)/1
    How about the rest of the rest of the story. Competion(natural gas) tends to lower the price. Gov. rules and regulations tend to RAISE the price. "If my policies are implemented, utility prices will necessarily soar." Not the exact words of the President but certainly an accurate paraphrase. One thing conservatives,, he has been successful in implementing his agenda, tax increases, soaring deficit spending and debt, increased gov. rules and regulations, stagnant economy, and income redistribution. he has increased redistribution of income via Obamacare and he intends to redistribute more through cap and trade. His policies of more people riding in the wagon and less pulling it may get him votes but as Margaret Thatcher said, "socialism workd only as long as other peoples' money doesn't run out."

    Another thought Buzz, get rid of the wind and solar gov. subsities, tax credits, and loan guarantees(by definition BAD LOANS), wind and solar energy will also suffer the same fate as coal.
    Last edited by caryalsobrook; 01-08-2013 at 06:00 AM.

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    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    I truly don't understand how such supposedly well read, well educated, critically thinking people can believe this is good for America.

    It is truly baffling to me.


    BTW---Across the street from "The Supplement Store" I frequent is a new store.
    The name of this "store?"

    "FREE GOVERNMENT PHONES!!!"

    You incremental secular progressives must be proud.....................


    (BTW-If you doubt me, say so, I will post a picture of the store)
    Last edited by road kill; 01-08-2013 at 06:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    I truly don't understand how such supposedly well read, well educated, critically thinking people can believe this is good for America.

    It is truly baffling to me.


    BTW---Across the street from "The Supplement Store" I frequent is a new store.
    The name of this "store?"

    "FREE GOVERNMENT PHONES!!!"

    You incremental secular progressives must be proud.....................


    (BTW-If you doubt me, say so, I will post a picture of the store)
    T.V. chan. out of Tulsa Oklahoma runs ads for the free phones often. They must be doing well.
    charly

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Buzz, in the original article it mentioned the power company considering converting to NG, but the cost of doing so would have raised electric cost 31%. It was more economical to get the needed power from WV and cause an increase of only 8%. But the fact is it did go up, regardless.

    NG is lower now, at least in part due to the newly-abundant supply of NG, a lot of which has to do with fracking. We already know that the administration is going after fracking as being unsafe. I don't know if it is or not, but the fact remains that energy prices are going to go up with additional govt regulation on NG production. We know from previous experience that some govt regulation makes sense, and there is also a lot of it that doesn't make sense.

    Meanwhile the WH is sitting on something like 7 permits for building export ports for NG ... which could then make NG as cheap for China and India as the coal ... not to mention that having those ports would have a nice effect on our trade deficits with those countries; not to mention the jobs created for building the ports. If NG is this clean and abundant, why isn't it being pursued more aggressively?


    And when the world economy does "recover" will the US have the energy capacity in place to fuel the economic engine? Isn't this kind of thing also "infrastructure" that is so often a topic?

    I have to agree with charly that renewable energy is only competitive with coal as long as it is subsidized. I find it difficult to believe that it is truly the big competition for coal. I would agree that NG is a competitor ... at least until regulations on fracking stifle that.

    This does NOT mean that I favor NO regulations.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Buzz, in the original article it mentioned the power company considering converting to NG, but the cost of doing so would have raised electric cost 31%. It was more economical to get the needed power from WV and cause an increase of only 8%. But the fact is it did go up, regardless.

    NG is lower now, at least in part due to the newly-abundant supply of NG, a lot of which has to do with fracking. We already know that the administration is going after fracking as being unsafe. I don't know if it is or not, but the fact remains that energy prices are going to go up with additional govt regulation on NG production. We know from previous experience that some govt regulation makes sense, and there is also a lot of it that doesn't make sense.

    Meanwhile the WH is sitting on something like 7 permits for building export ports for NG ... which could then make NG as cheap for China and India as the coal ... not to mention that having those ports would have a nice effect on our trade deficits with those countries; not to mention the jobs created for building the ports. If NG is this clean and abundant, why isn't it being pursued more aggressively?


    And when the world economy does "recover" will the US have the energy capacity in place to fuel the economic engine? Isn't this kind of thing also "infrastructure" that is so often a topic?

    I have to agree with charly that renewable energy is only competitive with coal as long as it is subsidized. I find it difficult to believe that it is truly the big competition for coal. I would agree that NG is a competitor ... at least until regulations on fracking stifle that.

    This does NOT mean that I favor NO regulations.
    Great question!

    Most of the NG producing wells is La and Tex are capped. That's because we do not have the infastructure for getting it to market in the form of CNG. Add that the special interest lobby for coal, corn, wind, solar is the stongest. With our Congress it is not about what is best for the American people, but which lobby can better help them get reelected. The Oil & Gas companies have bigger battles to fight domestically than championing NG. BTW, T Boone Pickens is the leading voice of NG and a big reason for the growth in CNG vehicles and home energy.

    P S
    The amount of NG avialble from the Gulf Of Mexico makes the reserves in the Dakotas look puney.
    Last edited by Franco; 01-08-2013 at 11:17 AM.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  8. #8
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Great question!

    Most of the NG producing wells is La and Tex are capped. That's because we do not have the infastructure for getting it to market in the form of CNG. Add that the special interest lobby for coal, corn, wind, solar is the stongest. With our Congress it is not about what is best for the American people, but which lobby can better help them get reelected. The Oil & Gas companies have bigger battles to fight domestically than championing NG. BTW, T Boone Pickens is the leading voice of NG and a big reason for the growth in CNG vehicles and home energy.
    Franco, 'did I read somewhere that they are opening CNG stations in LA?
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

  9. #9
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duk4me View Post
    Franco, 'did I read somewhere that they are opening CNG stations in LA?
    Texas, La and California are the most aggressive states building CNG Filling Stations. Just in my little ol town we have four. Most of the city government and private industry fleets are running on CNG. Honda makes a CNG Civic but they are all being sold in California and the local dealers are having a hard time getting any.

    The amount of CNG that we are producing compared to what we could be producing is mind-boggling.
    Last edited by Franco; 01-08-2013 at 11:24 AM.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  10. #10
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    It is completly idiotic not using CNG to power our vehicles. We get a discount on our propane in the poultry business due to volume we use. We are currently paying $1.45 per gallon. Think about how much money would stay in consumers pockets if every car was powered by CNG.

    Lets see much less poluting and we have enough of it for our childrens great grandchildren to not have to depend on foreign oil. How smart are we?
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

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