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Thread: Chessie vs lab ?

  1. #161
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j towne View Post
    To me a field background is a background where the dog was used for retrieving. It could be hunting, trials, or test. Just something in the field.

    Chesaka what is your point?

    Not all Chesapeake breeders care if the dog retrieves or has a good temperament. Some just care about their coat and bone structure.
    As a pretty dedicated retriever guy who happens to run Goldens I am asked for advise all the time in my area to help with this or that retriever. The point I took from ntzlblk719 not Chescaka post, was what I tell people all the time, that being the odds would be pretty good for you to get at least an average hunting dog that could do journeyman work with any old Lab you pick up out of the paper. That isn't true with Goldens. With Goldens you could easilly end up with a very nice looking, well mannered, people oriented dog that won't hunt.

    Obviuosly there are exceptions to the rule, our first street bred Golden was a wonderfull hunting dog and got us in the game, but the disparity between the show or field bred Goldens is so great, I think it would be a miracle. That's why many guys who just run hunt test see horrible Goldens who are piggish and won't touch the water. You don't see this in field trials where everybody has a well bred field Golden, Lab or Chessie. I know there is also a huge disparity between show and field Labs, but I still maintain the average street bred Lab stands a fine chance of being a serviceable retriever. The last dual champion Golden was nearly forty years ago, where it is a pretty routine thing with Chessies. I guess the point is that being a good field Chessie doesn't automatically disqualify you from the show ring as it does for Labs and Goldens.

    John

  2. #162
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    And as far as trainability, I obtained mine from a breeder known better for producing show dogs than gun dogs, but my instincts and previous experience with Chessie's was right: Pretty much every Chessie is going to hunt. You may get that with a show bred lab or golden, but you most certainly willget it with a show bred Chessie.
    Many years ago a customer bought a ch x ch chessie because he said that the owners said they hunted them. (which can often mean that owners take their dogs hunting and not that the dogs actually are good at it) Anyway the dog had 0 prey drive. He might as well have bought a goat.
    either He and I were the most unlucky people in the world or there are a few more like that out there. I would imagine you can find a dud in all the breeds.
    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  3. #163
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Many years ago a customer bought a ch x ch chessie because he said that the owners said they hunted them. (which can often mean that owners take their dogs hunting and not that the dogs actually are good at it) Anyway the dog had 0 prey drive. He might as well have bought a goat.
    either He and I were the most unlucky people in the world or there are a few more like that out there. I would imagine you can find a dud in all the breeds.
    Pete
    There are duds in all breeds, even Chessies. Worst dog I ever hunted over was a chessie owned by a guide we used on the Eastern Shore in MD. I had a young dog with a NAHRA WR title. Guide said I coudn't bring him because he had his dog and didn't want things to be messed up with untrained dogs. Fair enough. However, his dog was awful. If it did make a retrieve, the guide had to run out of the blind to get the bird at the shore before it ate it. It could not do rudimentary blinds, so the guide was firing up the boat to pick up birds the dog couldn't get. The only time any canvasbacks came in they flared away because the guide was either out in the boat or on the shore yelling at his dog. Can't imagine that guy is still in business with that animal.

    Not knocking Chessies, but the statement that they are all naturally good hunting dogs is just silly.

  4. #164
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    As a pretty dedicated retriever guy who happens to run Goldens I am asked for advise all the time in my area to help with this or that retriever. The point I took from ntzlblk719 not Chescaka post, was what I tell people all the time, that being the odds would be pretty good for you to get at least an average hunting dog that could do journeyman work with any old Lab you pick up out of the paper. That isn't true with Goldens. With Goldens you could easilly end up with a very nice looking, well mannered, people oriented dog that won't hunt.

    Obviuosly there are exceptions to the rule, our first street bred Golden was a wonderfull hunting dog and got us in the game, but the disparity between the show or field bred Goldens is so great, I think it would be a miracle. That's why many guys who just run hunt test see horrible Goldens who are piggish and won't touch the water. You don't see this in field trials where everybody has a well bred field Golden, Lab or Chessie. I know there is also a huge disparity between show and field Labs, but I still maintain the average street bred Lab stands a fine chance of being a serviceable retriever. The last dual champion Golden was nearly forty years ago, where it is a pretty routine thing with Chessies. I guess the point is that being a good field Chessie doesn't automatically disqualify you from the show ring as it does for Labs and Goldens.

    John
    Excellent point, John. What do you think the hunter thinks to himself when he goes to a hunt test to check out the stuff that's available and takes a look at the goldens? I think here in my area may be worse than other places.

    The fact that you don't see this in Chessies is one of the reasons that I really like them. There is only one Chessie that I have seen that looked less than workable but I really fault the owner/trainer, not a problem with a split in the breed. I hope that the Chessie people can prevent this kind of problem.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  5. #165
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    You know, you guys really don't have to do this to yourselves.

    They make Labs.
    You can own one.



    I recommend black.

  6. #166
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    They made candles and matches but that wasn't good enough for Edison.

    We just want something more!

    Tim
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

  7. #167
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    DH
    I experience that too But to be fair,,,most make good hunting companions. I've trained some miserable Labradors sob's too.
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  8. #168
    Senior Member j towne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    You know, you guys really don't have to do this to yourselves.

    They make Labs.
    You can own one.



    I recommend black.
    Anyone can take the easy way out when someone says that black lab look good. No one knows who you are talking about and there are do many not many will notice. But when some compliments a Chessie you know exactly what dog their are talking about.

  9. #169
    Senior Member j towne's Avatar
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    John I have had people ask me to recommend a golden to them. I just tell them try to get one with reddish color.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    As a pretty dedicated retriever guy who happens to run Goldens I am asked for advise all the time in my area to help with this or that retriever. The point I took from ntzlblk719 not Chescaka post, was what I tell people all the time, that being the odds would be pretty good for you to get at least an average hunting dog that could do journeyman work with any old Lab you pick up out of the paper. That isn't true with Goldens. With Goldens you could easilly end up with a very nice looking, well mannered, people oriented dog that won't hunt.

    Obviuosly there are exceptions to the rule, our first street bred Golden was a wonderfull hunting dog and got us in the game, but the disparity between the show or field bred Goldens is so great, I think it would be a miracle. That's why many guys who just run hunt test see horrible Goldens who are piggish and won't touch the water. You don't see this in field trials where everybody has a well bred field Golden, Lab or Chessie. I know there is also a huge disparity between show and field Labs, but I still maintain the average street bred Lab stands a fine chance of being a serviceable retriever. The last dual champion Golden was nearly forty years ago, where it is a pretty routine thing with Chessies. I guess the point is that being a good field Chessie doesn't automatically disqualify you from the show ring as it does for Labs and Goldens.

    John

  10. #170
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j towne View Post
    Anyone can take the easy way out when someone says that black lab look good. No one knows who you are talking about and there are do many not many will notice. But when some compliments a Chessie you know exactly what dog their are talking about.
    That's true.
    When a Lab looks good it's too common of an occurrence for it to stand out.

    But, a Chessie looking good is a pretty rare sight.

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