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Thread: A quietly common notion

  1. #11
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    You work at putting a dog through the yard and basics.

    You work very hard at making sure what you taught is solid.

    Should you really consider "going back" or "reviewing',, but instead, making sure you move on to transition and apply what the dog has learned, keeping the standard high?

    I get told all the time ,I miss opportunities to handel, work on sit, keeping my standard high..
    Its all about applying what you have taught the dog to the field work..
    Do you really TRAIN at a Training day?

    JMHO..

    P.S.

    I am very bad at the above.. and working on my 1000 blinds.

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Obedience is an ongoing project. Every issue that arises will get addressed on the spot, whether it's in the house, on a walk, or in the field. That's for general obedience. How else can you produce a reliable dog? Competition obedience is worked on 5 times a week.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

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  3. #13
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    This is one of those things that persistently comes up quietly...almost casually, but all too often. Someone will suggest or state something like "I like to re-visit obedience once a month", or "I go back to force fetch every month or two...",
    I haven't heard that said very often.



    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    "Before each training session we do some obedience work"
    I've heard that.



    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    ....On discussion boards this sort of comment is pretty common, but is rarely discussed at any length. What are your thoughts on such notions?
    Certain things do need to occasionally be revisited. Like lining drills, no-no drills, tune-ups, and swim by.

    However, there are other things that should be maintained throughout all of a dog's training and working. So, they shouldn't require "revisiting".
    If they do, either you aren't being consistent in maintaining your standards, or you didn't adequately establish the standard to begin with.

    Could be either one.
    But, it tells you that something isn't "right".

  4. #14
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to know how many successful field trial trainers both amateur and professional do drills and go back to basic training as a matter of course with every dog. I cannot say it has never happened here but if so it was rare and related to some specific issue with a specific dog that was not resolved in the field. I understand why people who mostly train alone with limited available hours do this but competitive field trial dogs almost never see any element of basic training after they are successfully doing multiple marks and complicated cold blinds.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Should you really consider "going back" or "reviewing',, but instead, making sure you move on to transition and apply what the dog has learned, keeping the standard high?
    Ah, there it is! And EdA basically stated how it goes for competition dogs trained by knowledgeable experienced FT trainers, which are an excellent model for HT and gundog trainers. "Keeping a high standard"; sounds like MAINTENANCE to me. And that is where the subject usually lands when it comes up in discussion. It gets a mention on forums, in PM's and in emails, and I know what the thinking is.

    Think about it; it's all obedience, isn't it? How much of this stuff does the dog dream up? We train our dogs to be obedient in a variety of ways. We do the best job we know how to do, but somehow come to believe it will just stay that way. It doesn't. Then some folks try to fend off the digression of standards by re-hashing fundamental obedience, and other essential tasks, when we should be maintaining them each time we train. If a specific area is falling into disrepair, our training should be designed to allow us to work on it...in the field.
    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I get told all the time ,I miss opportunities to handle, work on sit, keeping my standard high..
    Its all about applying what you have taught the dog to the field work..
    Do you really TRAIN at a Training day?

    JMHO..

    Gooser
    Yup! I don't think those things need to be gone back to, so much as they need to be kept alive; maintenance.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

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  6. #16
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    The notion of maintaining a standard is a fairly regularly discussed concept here on RTF and has been for years.

    Creeping, vocalizing, breaking, loopy sits, crooked sits, hovering or butt-lifting.... All part of poor maintenance of a standard, it seems to me.

    Chris

  7. #17
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt8@cox.net View Post
    Isn't it possible some of the above are the result of a compromise and not poor maintenance? Over the past few years I've seen dogs with problems like these (not all at once) go home with blue ribbons in the Open and the Amateur.
    Walt
    I thought the discussion was about training procedures,,, going back to previous steps to correct problems,, ect,, not what you do to win or Pass an event.

    Even though you might go home with a ribbon,, do you accept a problem early, because you think Judges will turn a blind eye,, or do you work at correcting the problem,, and not encouraging it to get worse? (GUILTY AS CHARGED)

    What have so many here said about expecting only half of your obedience and control at a Trial or test, compared to what you see during training??

    Sumpin like that as I remember.

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  8. #18
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    There's some stuff that you can't continually maintain, if you hunt your dog.
    You will have to do tune-up drills in the spring, in order to get the dog back to where it was at the beginning of fall.

    The reason is simple.
    Hunting isn't a designed training set-up. It is random, chaotic, and without specific design.

    The dog is going to have to be allowed to go "self employed" on blinds, cheat water and cover, and just plain forget a lot of the concepts that were pounded into it's head in the off season.

    That doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to maintain the standards that we have established, when we are able.
    But, the fact remains that a lot of hunting, is "untraining".
    Last edited by copterdoc; 01-12-2013 at 08:51 PM.

  9. #19
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    Jim Kappas said he takes ( took) his dogs through his total program every spring when he went south for the winter ...the reason he gave was to establish the standard of performance after being off at home for some time....He stated it didn't take long to go through it and the dogs were back at peak performance again...

    I believe in re-visiting a certain drill to work out a problem that has developed in the field ...a visit is different than moving back home and staying for a while...If an issue ( problem ) arises in the field and application of the tools in your box can't correct it with only a few reps it may be time to look at a visit to a more controlled setting where things can be dealt with some pressure to reinforce the command.....A dogs leanings are not a once for all time thing...they have to be kept current... Steve S

  10. #20
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt8@cox.net View Post
    Didn't mean to derail the thread. My post was a response to Chris's, about what he felt was poor maintenance of standards.
    I'm not talking about encouraging young dogs to misbehave in training. My comment concerns some all age dogs that are given some latitude with a problem, instead of pushing to gain a perfect standard. Like lifting their behind up a bit, or moving their front legs, or giving a little voice. Some of these dogs you'd have to practically kill to get a perfect standard.
    Walt
    The perfect retriever has yet to be whelped.

    My point is that the notion of setting and maintaining a standard is regularly discussed here. I would imagine that Randy Bohn's noisy dog fix boot camp and resulting maintenance program is all a part of setting and maintaining a standard.

    I agree that like in most relationships, some sort of compromise becomes part of the equation, whether it's interpersonal, or between dog and trainer.

    Chris

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