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breaking when hunting

9K views 36 replies 27 participants last post by  KwickLabs 
#1 ·
My 2 year old lab is starting to break in duck hunting situations. Its his first season. He is 100% reliable in training. He really only breaks if I shoot. Should I correct him with the collar if he breaks? How much stimulation? Do I keep on the collar even if he keeps going? I am worried that to much of a correction will hurt his desire to retrieve in a hunting setting. What do I do?
 
#2 · (Edited)
You can try re-enforcing with little nicks before you stand up and shoot. It works well,,,but it depends how you train whether it works for you or not. So the birds are coming in and you say sit nick --nick,,,low level and see if your response is positive. I do it this way all the time with young dogs and normally they do not break.

Do this in training first before going to the field. Of coarse there is more to it than saying sit-nick -nick but in essence that's all it is. Read dog,, temp the dog,, issue rein forcement,,,blend it together.
Pete.
 
#7 ·
What do you do if the dog breaks and by the time you get your gun down he is 15 yards out charging towards a downed duck? If I don't shoot.....he is steady when I am whispering to him to sit, sit sit. It's mostly when I then decide to pick the gun up again.
 
#13 ·
For real, the dog is two. Op sounds like a hunter. Dog in truck equals no waterfowl experience. Not the course I would take.

Dog can't break when tethered. Check cord! Simple--and you can hunt with your buddies. I would trade real life dog swamp scenarios in a heart beat for leaving the dog in the truck.

Good luck.
 
#6 ·
Breaking is serious enough that you really do need to fix it like the other guys said......which I know you are trying to do or you wouldn't be talking about it here. I'd restrain the dog either with a hand on his collar and a soft but firm SIT or DOWN or PLACE or whatever command you are using. Another option is a short tether with a quick release hook that you can unhook easily when you are ready to send him.
 
#8 ·
Are you hunting by yourself or with friends? I think the best thing you can do is have other people shoot while you pay attention to the dog. Look at what you are teaching the dog right now---you say sit, you shoot, the dog doesn't sit stay but instead rewards himself with a retrieve. What does the dog think you really mean when you now say sit? Every time he breaks he is reinforcing the incorrect behavior. I think that the longer this goes on, the bigger the problem you will have in fixing it.
 
#11 ·
Is he trained to stop or sit on a whistle ? I am currently working on my dog with similar issues sort of, I keep him staked but before I did that if he broke I could almost always stop him immediately with a whistle but I know that is a lot to ask when you have a call in one hand and a gun in the other sometime you don't think fast enough to grab the whistle. Hunting with friends and working your dog on a lead is a good option I did that with my first retriever and he caught on really quick. Now I do a big correction with the ecollar if my new one braks or attempts it. Trying to replicate it in training is always better than the field. It took me a while to get mine to do it in training but eventually he did it then you can start from there good luck
 
#12 · (Edited)
[QUOTEWhat do you do if the dog breaks and by the time you get your gun down he is 15 yards out charging towards a downed duck? If I don't shoot.....he is steady when I am whispering to him to sit, sit sit. It's mostly when I then decide to pick the gun up again][/QUOTE]

I don't do anything if a dog breaks. ( While hunting) Its usually not a big deal. I definitely don't view it as a set back. I use that as a gauge to where I'm at. You need to take a different route in your training. Live birds live rounds,,,and work your way over the top of the dog. I load a winger in the reeds and play might hunter a few times.
There are ways of doing this pretty quick and you don't need help. There are many ways to steady a dog. I don't know how you went about it. How you go about it will determine what you do when you are hunting. I seldom correct for breaking anymore.

I think you should take the time to develop a strategy in the yard how to deal with this. and move it to the field. re-eforcement to me is way more efficient for this than corrections and generally more gentle.
pete.
 
#14 ·
Joe--- just re-read. Agree leaving the GUN in the truck makes sense--not the dog.
 
#15 ·
My 2 year old lab is starting to break in duck hunting situations. Its his first season. He is 100% reliable in training. He really only breaks if I shoot. Should I correct him with the collar if he breaks? How much stimulation? Do I keep on the collar even if he keeps going? I am worried that to much of a correction will hurt his desire to retrieve in a hunting setting. What do I do?
If your correction ( pressure ) is not enough to stop him you are not doing any good applying it ...turn it up until he will stop...It has to be greater than the distraction....There is a lot of prework before you crush a dog on a break ..He must know what a verbal sit means ....Have you shot flyers for the dog in training ..? Snubbing with a short rope and tie out is good advice, If he will only break when you shoot...He is very wise to the whole situation....Steve S
 
#16 · (Edited)
Buy some poppers (gundogsupply.com) that are primers only. Train in simulated hunting situations using a shotgun and poppers. Then the dog will be used to seeing the gun go up and being steady. This is what happens at HRC hunt tests. See video below.

http://www.retrievertraining.net/fo...lden-Retriever&highlight=cream+colored+golden


I don't know how you hunt but try to recreate the hunting situation.

You can make it more realistic by building a fake duck blind front and practicing over water or practicing out of a boat.

http://www.retrievertraining.net/fo...ings-not-to-forget-in-training&highlight=Boat
 
#19 · (Edited)
Make sure your collar is always tight. You always want to know your dogs correction level before going into the field. Do some yard drills with him and learn his level on the collar there in the yard,intice a break or anything that will work in the yard , if you burn him too hot in the field depending on his resistance level then you could burn him into a no go. After that sit burn sit if he acts like he wants to break in the field make sure you have implied sit before the burn
 
#20 ·
We train to go hunting, we don't go hunting to train! A dog that breaks during the shot is out of control, no one wants to be around a dog that won't mind. these arethe rule my buddies and I hunt by concerning dogs.
1. If your dog breaks while hunting , you tie him short and make him watch. No retrieves.
2.If you have the only dog, then you don't shoot. You hold/work the dog.
3.No returns with that dog till breaking is fixed.
If you don't know how to fix it get help from a pro!
 
#21 ·
My hunting partner purchased a nice started dog last year but never learned how to handle him in a training or hunting situation. The dog is so FUBAR'ed right not it's not funny, breaks on every shot but owner refused to stake him down.:rolleyes: I plan to set a dentist appt soon because I have ground my teeth all season!!
 
#31 ·
I use this every year at the beginning and with young dogs. I don't understand why no one usually wants to do this. Tie them with just enough slack that they give themselves a correction when they bolt! Its amazing how good this works!
 
#25 ·
Been down this road and fixed it. Sooooo
We have two weeks left to hunt. I'd stake him so you can control when he goes. Enjoy your last few hunts.
Post Season: If he is steady to sit. Get a (some) live bird(s). Sit Fido, introduce the bird. You are there to correct when he breaks, which I bet he will do. Very soon you will be able to let the bird flop all around him. Repeat in the water (at the blind if possible). It only took a few of these for my lab to get used to the excitement and was able to wait to be sent.
 
#26 ·
Once you have corrected your dog in the blind while your buddies are shooting and he is steady, take it to the next step.
Have your buddies hold & use the transmitter while you stand up and shoot. Let others tell him "sit" and correct him. You can teach this outside of real hunts, as others said.
Eventually, you & the dog will be able to hunt alone, and he might be steady.
 
#27 ·
I would quit shooting all together until I fix this. Sounds like this is your dogs 1st season and he is young. Handle your dog and don't shoot. I hunt my dog like I train with him and demand the same standards. He's 9 and still wears a collar. The 1st time he broke I got him pretty good with the collar, yelled NO and then here. I was able to get the duck mysef and denied him the retrieve. The next time ducks were working I nicked him and said sit. He didn't budge. Over the years he has broken a few more times and I'll give him a stout nick and recall him then send him for the bird. It's enough of a wake up call that I'm usually good for the rest of the season.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Same as you would do if he were breaking in training, NO HERE, Collar correction. If he's breaking he's got plenty of desire to get the bird your not going to take that out of him with a correction. Your just going to save yourself, a bunch head-ache and time. If he were breaking in training he'd get corrected for it, hunting is an extension of training. Even the most solid experienced dog is prone to break while hunting, a solid correction, even if that means burning him all the way out to the bird and all the way back, is usually all that is needed put to all that training back into place. Sure you can go back, put your gun up, just train the dog, making sure he understands that he's not allowed to leave without being sent. But eventually your going to pick up that gun again, the dog still needs to stay, he's been trained that if he doesn't stay he gets corrected. Correct now or correct later, eventually you still need to correct.
 
#29 ·
I had a similar issue here's what I did, my dog was breaking when birds were landing something that was difficult to do in training so I took him to a local roost several evenings along with his blind, sat him on the edge of the water and let him see 1000s of birds land all around him, by the second time he was solid, quiet no movement just what i wanted, took him back hunting and he started to whine and creep a little in the blind completely opposite of what he did in training, he learned quickly the difference between training and hunting so the next step was to take him back to the roost reinforce the commands then back to hunting and let him try in a real scenario, I was by myself no shooting but I did let birds work really close within 20 yards when he whined I gave him a command and a strong nick, by the second group he had gotten the picture, I never pulled the trigger and never was planning on it, but i got as close to a real scenario as I could. Hopefully I wil try him out with a buddy tomorrow where he will be shooting and I will be still working with the dog. I would rather give up some hunts and have the dog do exactly what I want him to than to let him whine or break or you name it, small sacrifice for the long run.
 
#30 ·
A number of people have already mentioned this I believe. But I would certainly trade you gun in for a heeling stick during a couple hunts. I can not think of a better way to train your dog not to break. It is different then training at home. The dogs feed off of the excitement of others and they need to know that though it IS exciting they still have to hold to their training.
 
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