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Thread: The Derby Stake

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryWilliams View Post
    If the goal is to run a derby then enter and learn. If the goal is to complete a derby then train continuosly at the difficulty that will be encountered at a Licensed Derby. If the goal is to place then train continuosuly at levels more difficult than will be seen at a trial. Harry
    Agreed, train for the all-age and run the Derby as Howard indicated a Derby career is very short 18 months to 24 months . Sure there are dogs that place younger, but, the above age is more realistic.
    Earl Dillow

  2. #42
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    Agreed, train for the all-age and run the Derby as Howard indicated a Derby career is very short 18 months to 24 months . Sure there are dogs that place younger, but, the above age is more realistic.
    Had an epiphany on this yesterday as we were out training some complex doubles etc. After reading the responses to this thread, I now see so much more during training. The holes, that is. Actually was panicking a little about the need to hurry up and close the holes and move up the ladder in time for the trials. My stress made the dog stressed, as well as my trusty bird-boy. A recipe for disaster. So, last night I decided we would continue at our normal pace to finish up T work, then move on to Swimby and de-cheating. All the while working on progressing with marks. If we're ready in time for the last two trials in Feb. then great. If not, we'll wait til the next one in April and maybe get a ribbon. One thing is certain. I will be attending a couple of Feb. trials just to watch and learn.

    This has been another lesson for me regarding the "Cart Before the Horse" syndrome. And maybe a little "I'm in love my new pup" blindness. She is great, and we will get there, but not by me rushing things just to make a trial date.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
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    That is a great post, Jen... (poor bird boy..LOL)

    Best, Judy
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  4. #44
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    If you havent finished Twork, swimby and de-cheating, I wouldnt be worrying about running a trial.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Jerry S.'s Avatar
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    Good idea Jennifer, if you are still doing T work, swim-by and decheating you and your dog will be better served polishing those before even thinking about a derby. Make sure your dog is not cheaty at all because if she gets away with it in a trial you have dug a serious hole which is very hard to get out of in future trials. Many good trainers, when seeing Fido try to cheat in a trial, will blow a whistle and pick up their dog. Tough pill to swallow but that is much more important than a five dollar ribbon!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    Had an epiphany on this yesterday as we were out training some complex doubles etc. After reading the responses to this thread, I now see so much more during training. The holes, that is. Actually was panicking a little about the need to hurry up and close the holes and move up the ladder in time for the trials. My stress made the dog stressed, as well as my trusty bird-boy. A recipe for disaster. So, last night I decided we would continue at our normal pace to finish up T work, then move on to Swimby and de-cheating. All the while working on progressing with marks. If we're ready in time for the last two trials in Feb. then great. If not, we'll wait til the next one in April and maybe get a ribbon. One thing is certain. I will be attending a couple of Feb. trials just to watch and learn.

    This has been another lesson for me regarding the "Cart Before the Horse" syndrome. And maybe a little "I'm in love my new pup" blindness. She is great, and we will get there, but not by me rushing things just to make a trial date.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    .....This has been another lesson for me regarding the "Cart Before the Horse" syndrome..
    great post Jen, your not the first on that cart and many of us still fall off of the wagon.
    Shoot for the fully trained hound and take the derbies / started tests if and when the stars are right.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  7. #47
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    Had an epiphany on this yesterday as we were out training some complex doubles etc. After reading the responses to this thread, I now see so much more during training. The holes, that is. Actually was panicking a little about the need to hurry up and close the holes and move up the ladder in time for the trials. My stress made the dog stressed, as well as my trusty bird-boy. A recipe for disaster. So, last night I decided we would continue at our normal pace to finish up T work, then move on to Swimby and de-cheating. All the while working on progressing with marks. If we're ready in time for the last two trials in Feb. then great. If not, we'll wait til the next one in April and maybe get a ribbon. One thing is certain. I will be attending a couple of Feb. trials just to watch and learn.

    This has been another lesson for me regarding the "Cart Before the Horse" syndrome. And maybe a little "I'm in love my new pup" blindness. She is great, and we will get there, but not by me rushing things just to make a trial date.
    Great post and perfect plan. Now having said that, if you believe based on observation that your dog is a good marker on land and water, is able to heel to the line and sit still and watch two birds to the ground, then why not run and see where you are. You will need to be very diciplined and willing to give up an entry fee to pick your dog up if he or she blatently cheats cover or water, goes back to an old fall or creeps out there. A lot will depend on if the judges set up straight forward marking test versus some kind of cheaty test.

    There is a lot to be gained as a handler and dog by going to the line and getting two or three series under your belt. The trick is to have high standards set in your mind and stick with them regardless of the additional pressure to succeed in an actual trial. A big well timed "NO-Here" followed by walking your dog back to the trck on lead can be worth the cost of entering.

  8. #48
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    I would also try to get the opinion of someone with knowledge in FTs to assess your dogs talent and level of training. If you mostly train alone.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    Maybe not but Susan may be recalling something that's illegal to do now in a derby. Sometimes they used to do a double followed by a single run from the same spot to try and get two series in quickly. The single would be visible to the dogs trying to do the double or they may pick up scent from the other station. Rather unfair.
    Suzanne Burr has tons of great stuff to share. She has bred and owned some remarkable FT Golden Retrievers..and I never tire of her posts.

    "Note to self: train for a delayed triple"....is a good thing, as said not to encounter in Derby (?)..but certainly for the upper stakes that you are really preparing for ...so in your proper training sequence (and balance in training..a Dennis reminder ..) that you have gone back to!

    Enjoy your pup..

    Judy
    Choctaw's Piscataquis Sebec CDX MH CGC WCX ***
    UCDX HR SR Sand Dancer's XX MTB Ranger UDT, MH, WCX **
    HR SR Scarlett's Andi O'Malley CD SH OA NAJ CGC (OAJ-2 Placements) 9/16/1995-3/31/2011

  10. #50
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Great post and perfect plan. Now having said that, if you believe based on observation that your dog is a good marker on land and water, is able to heel to the line and sit still and watch two birds to the ground, then why not run and see where you are. You will need to be very diciplined and willing to give up an entry fee to pick your dog up if he or she blatently cheats cover or water, goes back to an old fall or creeps out there. A lot will depend on if the judges set up straight forward marking test versus some kind of cheaty test.

    There is a lot to be gained as a handler and dog by going to the line and getting two or three series under your belt. The trick is to have high standards set in your mind and stick with them regardless of the additional pressure to succeed in an actual trial. A big well timed "NO-Here" followed by walking your dog back to the trck on lead can be worth the cost of entering.



    This is actually what my original intent was, John. Because I don't have a steady group to work with yet, I really wanted to drive the 5 -7 hours to the trials to get a feel for how they work and how the nerves and atmosphere affect our performance at the line. I was thinking that if nothing else came of it, it may be worth the $80 entry fee to practice being at the line, feeling the nerves and see how she does. May still do that at the end of Feb. But not at the beginning of Feb, like I had wanted to. There's always another one in April. Pup is only 11 months now.

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