The Derby Stake

[Rnd]

After Derby the dog ran in Canada due to AKC suspension.

CKC honors AKC suspensions!!!!!!!

I don't know the details (or at least don't want to talk about what I think I know)

But Ammo didn't run in the states for awhile.

She does have both Canadian titles,and had a very good showing (2012) in the Canadian Nationals.

She is also very close to finishing here in the States as well.

[huntinman]

After Derby the dog ran in Canada due to AKC suspension.

No she didn't. She ran in Canada in 2012. The same time she started back here.

[john fallon]

John, this deserves it's own thread & is off subject .

Perhaps you should reread the origional post.........Then read your posts on the thread

jphn

[Paul "Happy" Gilmore]

Perhaps you should reread the origional post.........Then read your posts on the thread

jphn

Breaking News!!!, John and Marvin took their differences outside....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM2LB3eLTc0

[Ted Shih]

Ted and others who judge, one of the things I've seen with Derby, as mentioned is the degradation of line manners, including creeping/vocal/ripping down holding blinds, breaking etc is that routinely judges will place these dogs.

/Paul

I can only speak as to how I judge. I will make notes on my judging sheet. For example
- Noise in HB, Noise on retrieve
- Forged to line
- 6' out
There have been dogs that I was prepared to drop (but dropped themselves before the end)
There have been dogs that I dropped places because of line manner, voice, etc. issues - upon consultation with my co-judge of course
It is a big deal to me. Not so big to others

[Marvin S]

Breaking News!!!, John and Marvin took their differences outside....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM2LB3eLTc0

My comment to you young guys - you have to reach that age to appreciate the journey -

[Gun_Dog2002]

I can only speak as to how I judge. I will make notes on my judging sheet. For example
- Noise in HB, Noise on retrieve
- Forged to line
- 6' out
There have been dogs that I was prepared to drop (but dropped themselves before the end)
There have been dogs that I dropped places because of line manner, voice, etc. issues - upon consultation with my co-judge of course
It is a big deal to me. Not so big to others

I appreciate that approach. I cringe when I see people keep running dogs in Derby because they are "having success" and chasing the derby list despite the fact the dog is creeping and barking its head off. Once that is ingrained to 2 years old its a real issue to deal with. Most of the time you see those dogs end up being sold for gun dog work. To me a quiet morning in the duck blind does not include listening to someone tell their dog to shut up every 2 minutes. Sadly most of them don't listen when I tell them I can fix that if they just focus on training the dog.

/Paul

[Paul "Happy" Gilmore]

My comment to you young guys - you have to reach that age to appreciate the journey -

just kidding... If I can manage to make it that far I'll name my dog John-Marvin...

[Gun_Dog2002]

Breaking News!!!, John and Marvin took their differences outside....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM2LB3eLTc0

You shouldn't post video's of you fighting with your brothers....

/Paul

[Wade]

1. Poor Line Manners
2. Poor Line Manners
3. Poor Line Manners
4. Poor Line Manners
5. Poor Line Manners
6. Poor Line Manners
7. Poor Line Manners
8. Poor Line Manners
9. Poor Line Manners
10. Poor Line Manners

Dogs running derby are usually right in the middle of transition training and have lots to learn. Too much derby with cheaty situations and short flyers will unravel some young dogs requiring remedial training which = bad because the dogs lesson plan is hosed. What often happens, especially with amateurs, is they don't recognize trouble nor have the stones to blow the whistle and pickup their dog when it creeps, cheats or switches what have you. Triples are rarely if ever seen in Derby. Judges that try triples these days will probably need to endure being run over by the bus.

Do you think some of these bad habits are induced by poor Derby judging? Shouldn't we as judges and FT people encourage people especially those new to the sport to run their dog in the minor stake?

As a Derby judge, Cheating set ups should be outlawed and those beaking flyer set ups as well. As Derby judges should we not strive to set up good marking tests, after all that is pretty much what we are judging.

I believe after a while you stand up and take notice of those judges you have witnessed judge a Derby where their set ups are not conducive to young Derby dogs, thus you avoid running under those judges!!!

I wouldn't avoid them all together BUT I would be very careful with who you run under and where your dog is at mentally/emotionally.